The SAAF Forum

Hi to all, i am interested in the SAAF operation with Impalas.

Impalas are/were the most produced jets for the SAAF, but still, even reading this forum, some questions seems to me still unanswered.

Let me explain better:


1- Impalas Mk 1's engines. AFAIK they had the Mk 20 and not the Mk 540 (1,135 kgs vs 1547).

2- were Impalas Mk 1 armed (as standard employ, not simply provisions for armament)? My sources say that the early ones (made in Italy), around 40 or 46, were built unarmed. Did the Impala built in SA got weapons?

3-My sources say that Impala Mk 1 were built in a grand total of 151 examples, instead the 165 originally planned with 125 made in SA by Atlas.

4- Did the Impala Mk 1 see ever a combat? In the list of accidents, there is no mention about losses due to enemy action, contrary to the Impala Mk 2 in early '80s.

5- Even in late '80s there were photos in which Impalas Mk 2 did not have ECMs. Surely they did not have ECM at beginning (the early photos show no trace of chaff or RWR). Even the simple fact that several Impalas were shot down in 1979-82 show that they weren't equipped very well at the time.

So, the question: how many Impalas had the RWRs/chaff launchers, in the one hundred produced overall?

6- When Impalas bounced Mi-8 and 24s, they did not use V3B... so the question: in 1985 the Impalas have not yet the AAMs with them? Or they weren't reliable? Or the range was in excess for an AAM armed Impala?

7- How many Impala Mk 2 were really retrofitted with AAMs, in pratical terms? I do know that every Macchi 326K had the provision for AAM (Magic 1), but the 'pratical' warload is not the same thing anyway. Especially as the Impalas Mk 2 were a bit underpowered (Viper Mk 540 vs Mk 600, -700 lbs/f) and a bit too slow (the 420 kt max speed is around -50 compared to the standard MB.326K). This should be interesting, as it's stated that an Impala Mk 2 cannot go with 6x Mk 82s and full fuel load, while the Macchi 326K could do it (but not by a great margin, let's say they could load 4xMk 82s and 2x 550 Magic).

Thank you for the attention.

Yes, the Impala Mk 1 was deployed operationally, hence the reason for a number of Mk1's being camouflaged in the early/mid 80's, the aircraft were flown on missions we reffered to as 'TELSTAR' which was a high altitude rely platform.

Yes, the Impala Mk 1 was armed, with 0,5in browning gun pods (carry one or two depending on our mission/task), F-2 (68mm) Rocket Pods), then for air-to-ground-training, we carried a 'LSBC' (Light Sores Bomb Carrier) which carried small practice 'smoke and flash (+-12,5kg each IIRC). In the armed tactical reconnaissance role we carried a phoot-recce pod equipped with various configurations of F-95 cameras).

Remaining Mk-2's all received RWR/CFDs from the mid-80's onward. It was therefore standard fit.

http://www.acig.info/CMS/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=47

Have a look at above concerning: 6- When Impalas bounced Mi-8 and 24s, they did not use V3B... so the question: in 1985 the Impalas have not yet the AAMs with them? Or they weren't reliable? Or the range was in excess for an AAM armed Impala?

During the Helicopter Shoot-Down Operation, the Impala Mk-2's had not yet been capable;e of the V-3 fit, and the tactics agreed-upon for the engagements even during practice, was to employ the 30mm cannon. The results speak for itself.

Not all Mk2's received the BRENDA modification, therefore not all were capable of carrying the V-3B (the SAAF did not use Magic 1's on the Impala). Only a few aircraft were modified, IIRC when I was at 85 Combat FS, we only had a couple of BRENDA aircraft. During the mid-90's the BRENDA aircraft were also modified to use the V3C trainer missiles.

Let me thank you for the answers given.


So, the Impala Mk 1 were used in battle, but never shot down?

Did they (Mk 1) ever carry bombs (let's say Mk 82s) in their weaponry?

Was their engine equal to the Mk 2 ones (Mk 540)?

If i understood well, the Impala Mk 1 was mainly used as 'relay' platform (i.e. long range radio communication), isn't it? While the Imp Mk 2 was used as strike platform.

If I recall correctly, a small number of Mk I's were modified to launch and control stand-off missiles and served as weapon trainers with 24 Squadron (who operated Buccaneers).

A total of 151 Impala Mk I aircraft were acquired by the SAAF (serials 460 - 610). I'm sure the first 16 were either manufactured in Italy or were asembled in SA from Italian kits.

A further 100 Impala Mk II aircraft were acquired by the SAAF (serials 1000 - 1099). I have seven MB-326Ks arriving in component form in 1974, followed by 15 more sets in the following year for assembly in SA and the balance built by Atlas Aircraft Corporation.

_________________
How come every time my ship comes in, I'm at the airport?

12 x Mk II received BRENDA modification

Wow, that's a very interesting thing to learn, as i am doing a wargame and needed info like this

Is known in which battles the Impala Mk 1 were used?

The Mk 1's were flying TELSTAR missions for aircraft doing cross border operations, on a daily basis, so you cannot say in which battle as we were involved in a low-intesity conflict since 1966, with a couple of planned operations (large scale), so missions were flown routinely, flying activities peaked and were bolstered when specific operations took place, btw: we never referred to it as "Battles"!

So, TELSTAR missions were a sort of 'flying radio relays'?

Yes, named after the first series of telecommunication satellites - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telstar

In a article from 1990, i read that one Impala pilot ejected shortly before, around Ondangwa. I don't find him in the list of Impalas lost, atleast i was not able to recon it. Someone recall if this crash really happened there?