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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2015, 20:29 
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I am stuck into scratch-building a Henri Farman HF-27, and will soon have to decide on its finish and markings.

In researching the subject, I recently came upon a picture I am reasonably confident is a photograph of one of the HF-27s used by South African forces in the 1915 campaign in German Southwest Africa. Here is the picture:

Image

I found it here, as one of the samples shown from a collection of photographs said to have been taken during that campaign:

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti ... 7601298457

Good as it is, the photograph does not give quite enough information to complete a model.

If anyone has information on these aeroplanes and their service in Southwest Africa, particularly photographs, or information on their markings (national insignia, if any, serial numbers, etc), it would be greatly appreciated.


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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2015, 22:41 
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Not SA in my opinion, but a European pic which may be of interest.

Image


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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2015, 23:36 
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An interesting picture, Sir, and pleasant to see. Thank you for sharing it.

The machine in the air is a trainer version of the Farman F.40. The basic type can be identified by the rounded, mid-gap nacelle; the trainer variant being identified by the long reinforced skids in front of the wheels, meant to prevent, or at least cut down on, nose-over endings to unskilled landings. Sub-type designations of the F.40 series are a minefield, and I would not like to hazard off-hand a guess as to just which version this might be. The basic F.40 type was designed late in 1915, and was a predominant French reconnaissance type during 1916 and well into 1917, so the '1912' date in the caption cannot be accurate. I cannot see enough of the aeroplane on the ground behind the automobile to be certain what it is, but the rudder has the air of a B.E.2c about it


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PostPosted: 13 Oct 2015, 10:57 
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My pic was extracted from an original 4 Volume book set on Aeronautics published around the 1940 :?:

At the risk of sidetracking you from your original query on the Farman HF27 in German SWA - I have a dimensional sketch of the F40P Avion Farman if it is of interest from a reprint of a 1919 book.


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PostPosted: 13 Oct 2015, 11:32 
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OK now I am getting somewhere re the German SWA query...after a bit of rummaging in the trunk and bookshelves. :D :D :D

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: 13 Oct 2015, 15:46 
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That is just lovely, Sir!

Just what is needed. I know the Farmans employed were given local serials, running from 3 to 8, but had no idea what form the numbers might have taken. That first picture would seem to be a 3 in rounded style. While the area where the Henry Farman logo (a large 'F' superimposed over a smaller 'H') would be normally applied is in shadow, I think it reasonable to suppose hat would e there, but no other marking is evident (French air service practice was to have a 'maximum load' inscribed on the rudder, usually on the port side).

In addition to the essential marking information in the first picture, the third one is the first clear picture I have seen of the engine from an angle which discloses some detail of how it was mounted. Till now that is something I have had to guess at, and while I came close, I will be revising my structure in this area a bit (the stage the build is at is that I have the wings complete, the nacelle on the lower wing, the tail surfaces made, and am constructing the engine and bearer points).

I am going to download these pictures, and will put up a link to his thread on a couple of sites wher I have also been seeking information on the type.

Would you mind if I posted the pictures elsewhere?

Thank you so much for your time and trouble over this.


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PostPosted: 13 Oct 2015, 16:23 
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Hi Oldman :wink: A pleasure. Share as you see fit. I note that our pioneer aviator in SA aviation history(Kenneth van der Spuy) writes fondly of those times. Here are some snippets.....

The all steel HF27 were shipped out to SA from the UK in large cases which were too big for the holds and were strapped down to the deck. Rough seas damaged 2 of the aircraft cases and on arrival at Walvis Bay(March 1915) they had to reconstruct 2 of the aircraft. Interesting the involvement of the pilots as well in the reconstruction!

Maj Gen Kenneth vd Spuy crashed one of the Henris at Kalkveld SWA when the new runway was constructed too short. A construction error in runway length was the causal factor. He & his plane ended up in the bushes at the end of the runway. His Henri Farman was called "Um-ti-Foo" as each of the HF27 had nicknames. Of interest the same aircraft were then used up in German East Africa. One aircraft apparently did disintegrate in the air in East Africa sadly killing the SA pilot.


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PostPosted: 15 Oct 2015, 15:51 
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Thank you for the extra detail on usage of these machines, Sir. Every little bit helps.

I wonder what you think of this photograph....

Image

I found it on a site without any caption but HF-27, and so know nothing about the circumstances where or when the picture was taken.

But the position of the number on the rudder seems very similar to that of the number on one of the photographs you posted above. Dead flat ground in one place where people wear sun helmets looks very like dead flat ground in any other place where people wear sun helmets. But the marking is not consistent with anything I have seen of RNAS/RFC machines either at Mudros or in Mesopotamia.


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PostPosted: 15 Oct 2015, 18:58 
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[quoteThank you for the extra detail on usage of these machines, Sir. Every little bit helps.

I wonder what you think of this photograph....
][/quote]

Sorry but I am at a loss, but hopefully some of our expert researches on site can come up with something definite. I can only hazard a guess and would default back to either German SWA or German East Africa as the same aircraft were deployed from SWA to East Africa. Let's hope someone else has something more concrete for you. Doug


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