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 Post subject: DRC war 1998
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2011, 18:11 
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csande wrote:

From a military point of view, war is over in the DRC , although there might still be some small and insignificant pockets of rebel activity here and there. The AFZ is no longer active in the DRC- they flew back home, victoriously, when the Great War of Africa ended.



I m not sure what victory means because the opposition was under equipped and did not have air power and we went on to lose :

-Three Chengdu F7s
-I have heard of a hawk that was shot by a MANPAD
-SF.260MC
-a couple of helicopters were shot down
-Economy ruined

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 Post subject: Re: DRC war 1998
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2011, 17:48 
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skyhawk77 wrote:
csande wrote:

From a military point of view, war is over in the DRC , although there might still be some small and insignificant pockets of rebel activity here and there. The AFZ is no longer active in the DRC- they flew back home, victoriously, when the Great War of Africa ended.



I m not sure what victory means because the opposition was under equipped and did not have air power and we went on to lose :

-Three Chengdu F7s
-I have heard of a hawk that was shot by a MANPAD
-SF.260MC
-a couple of helicopters were shot down
-Economy ruined


Zim went to the DRC to defend the Kabila government and its people against the rebel invasion. Due to effective use of superior firepower they managed to bring the seemingly invincible and unstoppable rebel advance to a screetching halt in the outskirts of Kinshasa.
The so called rebels had significant elements of regular Burundan and Rwandan troops, they were never under equiped and had access to aircraft to move troops and equipment. Skyhawk77- don't forget who was chased out of Mogadishu by under equiped bare footed Somalis armed with AK-47s and RPG-7s.
True, Zim's economy may not have been at its best when she sent troops to the DRC and during that war equipment-including aircraft- were lost. Sadly a number of our brave men and women went down in battle, but- "Skyhawk77"- all this was not in vain because the rebels were eventually defeated and only after winning the war did Zim-together with Angola and Namibia- leave the DRC-and yes- victoriously!


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 Post subject: Re: DRC war 1998
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2011, 18:11 
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i strongly think it was an "easy war" and GVT of zim should have wrapped up things earlier without losing much hardware. i heard at some point during the war a deal with the Chinese was made to provide more F7s. how many planes were lost.

I salute all those who lost their lives in the war for peace. May their souls rest in peace.

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 Post subject: Re: DRC war 1998
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2011, 23:20 
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Your reference to Mogadishu can only mean the UN peace keeping force there, mainly the USA.

They were not chased out, dig deeper, prior to the mission that is shown in the "hollywood movie as Blackhawk Down" the US commander had requested /wanted heavy armour and more fire power etc. This was request was denied on the grounds he was doing a "Peace Keeping" mission. The HUMWEE is not designed for the combat role it is used in, it is a means of transport and has had armour palting added on to fufill a role it was never designed for in the begining. With one Spectra C-130 circling those militia would have been toast. The Geneva convention also limits what can and can not be used when civillian populations are present in such built up areas.

This incident has harmed Africa more than it has helped her, as the average American can not see why they should help out in Africa in any manner. Especially now that the same chaps are pleading for international aid.

The MPLA government were and are a contradiction. The critisie the USA but sell their oil to them.
During the border war Cubans were guarding the oil facilities in Cabinda from UNITA/SADF raids whom the US was giving limited aid in the form of weapons etc through Zaire (DRC) then the oil pumped was going to the USA


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 Post subject: Re: DRC war 1998
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2011, 14:18 
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skyhawk77 wrote:
i strongly think it was an "easy war"


The DRC war was the longest war in modern Africa, it began in Aug 1998, sucked in 8 nations, involved 25 rebel and national armies and killed over 5 million people by the time it ended in July 2003.
Skyhawk77...do you still want to strongly think this was an easy war?


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 Post subject: Re: DRC war 1998
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2011, 18:59 
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SA faced a stronger opposition in the form of Cuba and they put a good fight thereby giving themselves an opportunity to claim victory. The rebels were "pedestrians" they did not have much hardware , at some point they walked 2000 km. They are worlds apart from the Libyan type so i don't think they were very strong i mean Executive outcomes would have done a quicker job with a few million dollars ,a flogger ,3 hinds ,1 Antonov and 500 men. :?

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 Post subject: Re: DRC war 1998
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2011, 17:20 
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No offense to anyone, but could this thread PLEASE be moved to the "other aviation discussions" section because it has absolutely nothing to do with the SAAF?

...Same goes for this thread.

Mod: Your wish, my command.

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 Post subject: Re: DRC war 1998
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2011, 22:20 
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skyhawk77 wrote:
... many planes were lost...

Which guns or missiles did the rebels use to bring down several aircraft during the DRC war?


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 Post subject: Re: DRC war 1998
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2011, 12:43 
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Quote:
23 March 1999, AFZ suffered the first and only Hawk loss of the war. One of two Mistrals launched hit the plane piloted by Flt Lt Michael Enslin, who had to eject behind enemy lines. Although injured, he managed to avoid capture and joined the encircled battalion – which broke trough and reached friendly lines after three weeks of fighting with the Rwandans.


Wikipedia says Mistral missile is infrared homing surface-to-air missile has a success rate of 95% during training. Range 4km-5.4km. length 1.8m Diameter 90mm and a speed of Mach 2.6

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After his recovery from injuries sustained during the Congo War, Flt Lt Michael Enslin (left) went on to win the AFZ's prestigious “Jungle Dustbin” gunnery trophy, with a record score. This photo shows Enslin together with the previous record-holder, Flt Lt Sam Sigauke. (AFZ Magazine, 2001)

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 Post subject: Re: DRC war 1998
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2011, 00:34 
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Interesting post there Skyhawk.

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 Post subject: Re: DRC war 1998
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2011, 19:01 
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skyhawk77 wrote:
.... Flt Lt Michael Enslin went on to win the AFZ's prestigious “Jungle Dustbin” gunnery trophy, with a record score.... the previous record-holder, Flt Lt Sam Sigauke.

What a scorcher! Pictures of pilots and aircraft of the AFZ, especially those of hero pilots like Enslin and Sigauke, are very hard to come by.
Thanks Skyhawk77, I found your post both interesting and informative. If you can, kindly tell us more about the "Jungle Dustbin"


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 Post subject: Re: DRC war 1998
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2011, 11:22 
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i don't know anything about the jungle dustbin i will research. I m happy you and H1017412 found my post informative and interesting. I hope you don't think the DRC war (AFZ) air campaign was a one man show :D


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 Post subject: Re: DRC war 1998
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2011, 17:49 
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csande wrote:
skyhawk77 wrote:
.... Flt Lt Michael Enslin went on to win the AFZ's prestigious “Jungle Dustbin” gunnery trophy, with a record score.... the previous record-holder, Flt Lt Sam Sigauke.
Thanks Skyhawk77, I found your post both interesting and informative. If you can, kindly tell us more about the "Jungle Dustbin"

The 'Jungle Dustbin' trophy has its origins in the former Rhodesia. Herewith an extract from Contact II by Paul L Moorcraft:-

Quote:
In 1976 an SA magazine carried an article about the Rhodesian Air Force (RhAF). It said that the RhAF Hunter pilots were "so good that they could hit a dustbin in a jungle clearing". Shortly afterwards a very tatty rusty dustbin arrived at 1 Sq RhAF, a mickey-taking gift from 4 Sq RhAF. The implied challenge was taken up and the bin was placed on the Kutanga gunnery range. Squadron Leader Rich Brand made one pass firing a quarter-second burst of 30mm cannon. The holed bin was galvanised and sent to RhAF HQ as proof. A picture of the bin found its way to the Royal Australian Air Force, Rhodesian Association. They returned a half size replica of the original bin, with the request that the then Prime Minister Ian Smith make a presentation.
The first recipient of the 'Jungle Dustbin' trophy "for a particular achievement either in practice or actual operations" was Flight Lieutenant Vic Wightman who became OC of 1 Sq RhAF.

Let's see what skyhawk77 comes up with.

Thank you.

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This post was edited by me so as to include the above photo.

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Last edited by Tally-ho on 10 Apr 2012, 09:42, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DRC war 1998
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2011, 18:12 
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thank you for sparing me the trouble. i m certain i wasn't going to be able to come up with something so brilliant and believable. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: DRC war 1998
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2011, 20:32 
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Tally-ho wrote:
csande wrote:
skyhawk77 wrote:
.... Flt Lt Michael Enslin went on to win the AFZ's prestigious “Jungle Dustbin” gunnery trophy, with a record score.... the previous record-holder, Flt Lt Sam Sigauke.
Thanks Skyhawk77, I found your post both interesting and informative. If you can, kindly tell us more about the "Jungle Dustbin"

The 'Jungle Dustbin' trophy has its origins in the former Rhodesia. Herewith an extract from Contact II by Paul L Moorcraft:-

... the RhAF Hunter pilots were "so good that they could hit a dustbin in a jungle clearing"....The first recipient of the 'Jungle Dustbin' trophy "for a particular achievement either in practice or actual operations" was Flight Lieutenant Vic Wightman who became OC of 1 Sq RhAF.Let's see what skyhawk77 comes up with.
Thank you.

Impressive! I am very well answered. I and many others now know what the Jungle Dustbin is... and what it signifies. You know your staff Tally-ho! Thanks.
So the AFZ continued with this interesting tradition to the present day...!


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