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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2018, 20:23 
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Location: Centurion, Pretoria, SA
Thought I'd chuck this in the mix - as an avid modeller its important to understand whether the kits we buy are accurate or not. Having AFB Swartkop at my doorstep, and a tape measure in hand, I put together the following on Mirage III and Cheetah wings/canards using the Museum's aircraft to measure :

Firstly - Mirage III wings :

ImageMirage III wings by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

IIICZ #805 has been fitted with E wings :

ImageIIICZ 805 (left) - IMG_0816 - 800 (1) by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

ImageIIICZ 805 (right) - IMG_0820 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

IIIBZ #818 fitted with CZ wings :

ImageMirage IIIBZ 818 (left) - IMG_0835 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

ImageMirage IIIBZ 818 (right) - IMG_0836 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

IIIBZ #816 also with CZ wings :

ImageMirage IIIBZ 816 (right) - IMG_0851 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

IIIRZ #835 fitted with E wings :

ImageMirage IIIRZ 835 (left) - IMG_0830 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

ImageMirage IIIRZ 835 (right) - IMG_0829 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

IIIRZ #838 :

ImageMirage IIIRZ 838 (left) - IMG_0823 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

ImageMirage IIIRZ 838 (right) - IMG_0824 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr


Last edited by Mistral on 09 Aug 2018, 20:49, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2018, 20:30 
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Joined: 31 Aug 2010, 15:01
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Location: Centurion, Pretoria, SA
Cheetah wings :

ImageCheetah wings by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

ImageCheetah D 847 (left) - IMG_0839 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

ImageCheetah D 847 (right) - IMG_0840 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

ImageCheetah E 842 (left) - IMG_0834 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

ImageCheetah E 842 (right) - IMG_0833 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2018, 20:32 
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Joined: 31 Aug 2010, 15:01
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Location: Centurion, Pretoria, SA
So, based on the measurements, the Cheetah D/E wings are similar in dimension to the IIIC/E wings with the obvious exception of outboard leading edge chord extension resulting in the dog tooth.

Wings on the Mirage IIIB, C and R are clearly interchangeable and therefore the assumption is that the R2Z, D and D2Z would be the same.

I still need to measure up the Cheetah C wing.


Last edited by Mistral on 09 Aug 2018, 20:50, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2018, 20:36 
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Joined: 31 Aug 2010, 15:01
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Location: Centurion, Pretoria, SA
Cheetah D and E canards are the same dimensions with the same attachment points :

ImageCheetah D and E canards by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

Cheetah C canard is significantly larger :

ImageCheetah C canards by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

So the D/E canard is 70% the size of the C canard. The C canard would've been the same as a Kfir canard. Why then the smaller canards on the D/E ? Also unique to the D/E wings is the presence of a wing fence inboard of the dog tooth, maybe required due to the smaller canard ?


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2018, 20:45 
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Thanks Mistral for this.

Something to note the C canard is positioned further forward than the D/E. The C canard is in the same position as the Kfir, again pointing to its heritage.

Also the canards fitted to Mirage D/E aircraft are smaller than the canards fitted to Cheetah D/E.


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2018, 21:41 
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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2018, 21:49 
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Hey Mistral,

Interesting stuff. Thank you :smt023

Mistral wrote:
I still need to measure up the Cheetah C wing.


Are you going to measure the Cheetah R's Advanced Combat Wing as well?

Regards,
Stratobat

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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2018, 22:05 
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Location: Centurion, Pretoria, SA
Stratobat wrote:
Hey Mistral,

Interesting stuff. Thank you :smt023

Mistral wrote:
I still need to measure up the Cheetah C wing.


Are you going to measure the Cheetah R's Advanced Combat Wing as well?

Regards,
Stratobat


They're standing vertically so would be difficult to reach the wing tips. Will post some piccies though.


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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 11:03 
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Location: Melbourne Australlia
That's great ! thanks a lot Malcolm :D


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PostPosted: 15 Aug 2018, 11:30 
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Mistral wrote:
Cheetah D and E canards are the same dimensions with the same attachment points :

Cheetah C canard is significantly larger :

So the D/E canard is 70% the size of the C canard. The C canard would've been the same as a Kfir canard. Why then the smaller canards on the D/E ? Also unique to the D/E wings is the presence of a wing fence inboard of the dog tooth, maybe required due to the smaller canard ?

There's an unsubstantiated theory that Cheetah C were Kfir airframes, re-engined from J79 to 09K50. Everyone "knows" it, but there's no official confirmation. Let's assume that the theory is correct. In that case, the Cheetah C airframe has any structural modifications necessary to support the loads of full-size Kfir canards. Cheetah D and E, on the other hand, are updated Mirage III DZ / D2Z and EZ. Those airframes were not rebuilt to the level needed to support the loads of full-size Kfir canards so 70% canards were fitted.


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PostPosted: 15 Aug 2018, 16:46 
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Joined: 07 Apr 2008, 11:50
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AFAIK the Cheetah Cs were built from Nesher airframes. The Nesher was developed from the Mirage 5 and kept the Atar engines.


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