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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2017, 12:38 
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Joined: 31 Mar 2015, 19:10
Posts: 254
Location: Pretoria
If any one aircraft in our Military History Museum could be said to be the most valuable, this would probably be it. It is an incredible aircraft in many ways and has real historical gravitas. I may touch on some of these aspects during the build, and hopefully some of the readers of this forum can add to the narrative.

Here she is at Schleswig-Jegel soon after its capture by the British.

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Excuse the abbreviated naming in the title, it is actually an Me 262B-1a/U1. Werksnummer 110305 "Red 8" is the only survivor of her type in the world, even though a couple were captured and many of them flown by the allies for evaluation purposes (and who knows, maybe just for fun). Why not a Bf 262 like the Bf 109 or Bf 110 you might ask. The company changed its name from from Bayerische Flugzeugwerke to Messerschmitt AG in July 1938, by which time the types 109 and 110 were already named by the Reichsluftfahrtministerium (RLM). The 262 design only came about later. We will be hearing more about the RLM later.

One of my primary aims of this build is to get to grips with the colour scheme of this aircraft, and late war German paint in general. Could be fun.

Does anyone possibly have a copy of this magazine lying about? It may be very helpful.

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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2017, 12:50 
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Popped into Jix yesterday, they had the new 1:32 Me262 Nightfighter.

It looks like they have provided the decals/ markings for "Red 8"....

http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article/1-32-revell-messerschmitt-me262-b-1-u-1-nightfighter/24698


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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2017, 22:18 
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Joined: 06 Mar 2016, 20:34
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Location: The Middle East
That will be an intresting build and yes I have that copy of Air illustrated


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 06:02 
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Joined: 26 Sep 2009, 09:19
Posts: 3660
Location: short final 31 fullstop
I am glad to see the revell kit with seperate slats, that is a nice feature :smt023


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 19:12 
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Location: Pretoria
MARS wrote:
Popped into Jix yesterday, they had the new 1:32 Me262 Nightfighter.

It looks like they have provided the decals/ markings for "Red 8"....


Mars, popping into Jix has become and expensive pastime of mine, and this Me 262 was the result of exactly one of those forays. Just when I thought the Trumpeter 262 would be the pinnacle, along comes Revell and ups the ante! Red 8 nogal :roll: The colour scheme they have for her is very interesting and will certainly feature later.


Oliver d wrote:
That will be an intresting build and yes I have that copy of Air illustrated


Oliver d, you have just become our chief correspondent in the Middle East! I am very excited that you are in possession of this important resource, and hope that you are willing to share the contents when the time comes in the discussion.


T. van Vuuren wrote:
I am glad to see the revell kit with seperate slats, that is a nice feature :smt023


Theuns, although the Trumpeter kit is now the ugly duckling, it too has separate slats!


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 20:24 
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Joined: 31 Mar 2015, 19:10
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Location: Pretoria
This is the first Trumpeter kit I have built, and so far I am enjoying it very much. In a matter of hours I had the feeling of getting somewhere - the engineering and fit is superb (especially after ploughing through an Italeri kit).

The seats are slightly modified as per the museum aircraft: a cushion in the front and a bent metal backrest for the poor backseater. Aires photo-etch Bf 109 belts on both as the kit's PE is a bit chunky for my liking. Here is an excellent walkaround of our Schwalbe from a German website - high quality images of every nook and cranny. https://www.scalenews.de/messerschmitt- ... alkaround/

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Due to the cockpit layout, the back of the instrument panel is visible through the canopy and could use some wiring.

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It takes next to no time and the cockpit is done. I am not going to waste too much time on detailing what is already quite good, after all, it is actually the paintwork I want to concentrate on.

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Quick mod to the nose wheel oleo. No torque link required...

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The cannon bay and engines won't be seen at all, but was it ever fun assembling them! Should one want to however, much could be made of these in terms of detail.

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Detailed fuel tanks for those who want to go crazy...

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I am quite interested in surface texture as part of this, and to that end I did a weld seam on the nose gear leg, as well as some dents and ribbing on the drop-tanks.

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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2017, 08:09 
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Joined: 12 Apr 2011, 20:49
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Location: Zwartkop
I think that I have some photo's of the cockpit interior,can't recall now, will check.


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2017, 09:14 
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Joined: 18 May 2012, 07:12
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Hi Madmax

I do not know if you have this info. It seems Revell color scheme is not 100% correct. I do not think the Trumpeter kit is that bad. If I look at the hype of the new Revell kits (especially the new P-51) it seems to be more the price as it still is not close to Tamiya.

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Just click on it and you should be able to read it

Joker


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2017, 09:58 
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Joined: 31 Mar 2015, 19:10
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Location: Pretoria
Joker wrote:
I do not know if you have this info. It seems Revell color scheme is not 100% correct. I do not think the Trumpeter kit is that bad. If I look at the hype of the new Revell kits (especially the new P-51) it seems to be more the price as it still is not close to Tamiya.
Joker


Hello Joker, I do have Ron's book and will be referring to it later. Thanks for sending the info though, as it is very relevant. I agree about the price point argument for the Revell kits.


AT6C wrote:
I think that I have some photo's of the cockpit interior,can't recall now, will check.


Thanks Geoff, there are ample on the scalenews.de website link that I posted yesterday - check it out...


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2017, 13:50 
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Location: Pretoria
The Me 262's place in history is surely beyond dispute. Apart from being the first production jet fighter, it incorporated some ground breaking technology. The jet engine alone would go on to change the world and contrary to popular belief, it was a German, not Frank Whittle who got the first jet engine off the ground. His name was Hans Joachim Pabst von Ohain (which would make a great trivial pursuit question). The swept wings were possibly incorporated to solve a C of G issue with the engines, but the German aerodynamicists certainly knew that sweep delayed the onset of compressibility. At any rate, the Me 262's sweep influenced future fighter design, and the Mig 15 and F-86 Sabre certainly benefitted from it. What I find just as amazing about this aircraft is how it was produced. The dispersed, subcontracted, modular fabrication of subassemblies, that are finally mated at a secret location sounds more like what Airbus does today than what was possible during the intense bombardment of 1944 and 1945. I am aware that this had a sinister side because of the labour involved, but it remains a remarkable achievement.

This particular jet is even more remarkable. Apparently the RAF's high speed Mosquitoes drove the Luftwaffe nuts, and the Me 262 was the panacea for the itch. Night time was when they were particularly irritating (as we know), and single seat Me 262's working with ground based radar in the "Wilde Sau" concept had their limitations since electronic warfare had already begun with the introduction of "Window". An autonomous onboard radar was a definite advantage but needed an extra crew member to operate it. Luckily some two seat trainer versions of the Me262 had already been built to facilitate quicker conversions from prop to jet, and some of these airframes were converted to dedicated night fighters. They incorporated the FuG 218 Neptun V radar recognised by the unique antennae on the nose, and another FuG 218 rear looking radar whose antenna was mounted ventrally just forward of the rudder. The concept of a RIO (Radar Intercept Officer) isn't new to us since we all watched Maverick and Goose do their stuff in a Tomcat, but in 1944 it was surely pure science-fiction.

I have enjoyed this book very much, and it includes some pretty unknown photo's of our "Red 8".

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What is interesting is the confusion about how many Me 262B-1a/U1's were actually produced. These excerpts are both from this book. So, was it six, seven, or eight (if you tally the known W.Nr's and add the two unknowns)? I'm also confused, but wait till we get to the paint. :lol:

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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 13:12 
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Joined: 31 Mar 2015, 19:10
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Location: Pretoria
Back to some model building.

Despite being well detailed, I feel the need to add some stuff in the wheel wells. This should come as no surprise to anyone who has endured any of my earlier builds.
The fact is that the 262 has very cavernous wells, with lots of electrical wiring, and some hydraulic lines that seem to originate here...

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The electrical wiring in our Saxonwold Schwalbe is all over the place, but in the restored 262A at the National air and Space Museum in DC, it is very neat, as I imagine it would have been during the war.

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I attended to the main wheel oleos, and made them a little shorter.

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As well as adding some hydraulic plumbing.

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Here is an interesting thing. It looks as if this panel immediately aft of the main wheel wells is a kind of a square "honeycomb" structure. More science fiction? Whatever the underlying structure is about, the surface skin must be quite thin and it makes these distinctive dimples. I scraped the pattern with a scalpel blade first, and then sanded it with Tamiya sanding sponges.

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Talking of surface texture, there is a bit of a Trumpeter challenge ahead. The crazy riveter has done his thing! The wings are real gems, but the B-team got hold of the fuselage. I think it will be best to fill them somehow, and just leave the panel join-lines visible.

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The paint shop is now open, and I had some fun with the hairspray technique. Is that pink sticking out there? I haven't totally lost it, check out the walkaround I linked earlier. The wood primer used on the cockpit panels was pink, and is very visible where the RLM 66 has been scuffed off.

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Now, as I near the painting of the exterior, may I ask that anyone with really old photo's of "Red 8" please post them as part of the research. Some years ago Etienne du Plessis posted an amazing photo of her in SAAF storage on the HyperScale forum, but photobucket sadly ate it up. Maybe there are more out there?


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 21:19 
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Joined: 31 Jan 2012, 21:56
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Is this what you are looking for?


http://village.photos/images/user/57852 ... 39f2e5.jpg


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PostPosted: 14 Dec 2017, 16:18 
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Joined: 12 Apr 2016, 21:38
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Impressive build so far.
If you need some more information there is a german site where you can download the different manuals:
http://www.germanluftwaffe.com/archiv/D ... umente.htm
Select the letter M in the box on the left and you get a selection of all Messerschmitt manuals available. There are quite a few. This site also has manuals for the different jet engines.


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PostPosted: 14 Dec 2017, 19:28 
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Joined: 31 Mar 2015, 19:10
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Location: Pretoria
Etiennedup wrote:


Hi Etienne, that is EXACTLY what I was looking for! Thank you very much indeed. It is a brilliant record of what the aircraft looked like as it stood in storage in what I believe to be 2 Hangar at CFS Dunnottar (note the FW 190 and the Fieseler Storch in the background).

Illustrious wrote:
If you need some more information there is a german site where you can download the different manuals:
http://www.germanluftwaffe.com/archiv/D ... umente.htm
Select the letter M in the box on the left and you get a selection of all Messerschmitt manuals available. There are quite a few. This site also has manuals for the different jet engines.


Thanks for the link Illustrious. I'm sure you make use of it for your Stuka's fine detail!


Now that we have a photo of W.Nr. 110305 as she looked on arrival in South Africa, it might be appropriate to hear Ron Belling's impressions of what he saw when he first laid eyes her. Oliver d, do you mind sharing the basic content of Ron's article in your magazine with us? It will give a lot of context to the discussions about her colour scheme.

I first became aware of Ron's article whilst trawling the web for information, and came across this discourse on a website called IPMS Vagabonds: http://ipmsvagabonds.com/page3/page52/page52.html I enjoy the tone of the author's writing, as well as his insight. I have subsequently corresponded with him, and hope to share some lovely insights from him with you.


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PostPosted: 14 Dec 2017, 21:59 
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Joined: 06 Mar 2016, 20:34
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Location: The Middle East
Currently in South Africa visiting my parents for the festive season,will only return home in March 2018.If still valid then i can make copies of the magazine.


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