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PostPosted: 11 Jul 2017, 20:01 
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Very interesting article by Darren - https://www.africandefence.net/why-the- ... t-matters/


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PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 05:47 
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Sounds interesting - but there seems to be a problem with the link?


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PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 08:18 
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SPAD wrote:
Sounds interesting - but there seems to be a problem with the link?

Just checked, it works for me.


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2017, 17:01 
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SPAD wrote:
Sounds interesting - but there seems to be a problem with the link?

There was a brief issue with site availability, should be fine now.

Roger the Dodger wrote:
Very interesting article by Darren - https://www.africandefence.net/why-the- ... t-matters/

Thanks, glad you liked it!


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PostPosted: 21 Jul 2017, 21:32 
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Does anyone know what the outcome of the investigation was of the C-47 crash in the Drakensberg back in 2012?


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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2017, 21:14 
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I see the CT47 Turbo Daks are flying again, last time I saw them they were flying with the Luftwaffe Tornados in Cape Town and then all four were parked together at Ysterplaat.

Are these to be disbanded or are they to be replaced. Was looking at An-26 transports recently and these seem to me like worthy replacement aircraft. I know they are Russian but looking at the 2047 retirement date placed on Tupelov Bears, perhaps these are worthy replacements. I cannot see the Aviocar fitting the bill through their recent restoration in the airforce over there transports or over what is being used more commonly in similar roles, the Beechcraft Guardrail.


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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2017, 22:39 
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eugenevh wrote:
Does anyone know what the outcome of the investigation was of the C-47 crash in the Drakensberg back in 2012?

Erika got hold of the BOI report and had a piece up on Netwerk24 a couple of weeks ago, in it she said there was undue pressure being placed on the crews to fly, but I can't recall the details.
maheshdeva wrote:
I see the CT47 Turbo Daks are flying again, last time I saw them they were flying with the Luftwaffe Tornados in Cape Town and then all four were parked together at Ysterplaat.

Are these to be disbanded or are they to be replaced. Was looking at An-26 transports recently and these seem to me like worthy replacement aircraft. I know they are Russian but looking at the 2047 retirement date placed on Tupelov Bears, perhaps these are worthy replacements. I cannot see the Aviocar fitting the bill through their recent restoration in the airforce over there transports or over what is being used more commonly in similar roles, the Beechcraft Guardrail.

Thanks. The intention is to replace them under Project Metsi (in the MSA/MPA role) and Project Kiepie (in the transport role, along with the C212s), but both have been dragging on for years without any real funding being made available for them.


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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2017, 23:18 
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The Beech Guardrail is an Inshore MRA, it would be a potential replacement for the Piaggio P166 planes that were retired years ago.
The Offshore MPA role used to be performed by Shackletons.

The Dakotas were never actually equipped for proper maritime patrol. They have no proper surface radar, just an ordinary aircraft weather radar that has a limited surface capability - similar to what many ordinary civil aircraft have. The only cameras they have are normal handheld DSLR that the crew can use to take photos through the aircraft's standard windows, no stabilized telescopic infrared optronic turret.

Don't think of Metsi as a Dakota replacement project, it's really meant to replace the Shackletons and Albatrosses,. The good old C47 is not the actual "before" baseline for Metsi.


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2017, 21:34 
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Correct, that's a fair point and important to remember. I should've been more specific.

Most SAAF aircraft acquisition projects are not specifically type replacement programmes, but capability replacement, restoration, or introduction programmes. This is sometimes reflected in the internal SAAF name for an acquisition, such as 'Advanced Light Fighter Aircraft' (ALFA) for the Gripen, which can sort of be seen as a role indicator.

I don't know what the internal SAAF designations for Metsi and Kiepie are, but from Dean's previous reporting on this the MPA part of the SAAF Staff Requirement calls for a long-range maritime patrol aircraft with a '360-degree radar, optical and acoustic sensors, electronic support measures (ESM), advanced communications and a tactical mission system' plus on-board weapons for anti-submarine warfare.

This would be a level of capability that the SAAF has never possessed before, not even when the Shackletons were new and adjusted for the era.

The maritime surveillance aircraft capability that may or may not be part of Metsi is for a King Air-sized non-weaponised platform, which technically speaking would be more of a 'replacement' for the C-47TPs.

As an aside, it's quite remarkable that in 1969 the Piaggio P166S replaced the C-47 in the in-shore maritime surveillance aircraft role, but was in turn replaced by C-47TPs 21 years later, in some cases I believe by the very same aircraft that had been flying patrols before 1969.


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