The SAAF Forum

Discussion on the SAAF and other southern African air forces.
It is currently 27 Jul 2017, 22:45

All times are UTC + 2 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 02 Jul 2017, 19:26 
Offline

Joined: 23 Sep 2013, 21:28
Posts: 291
Christmas has come early to my house as I received this from John today :D

Image

So everything else I have on the bench has been swept aside and hopefully by combining these 2 box contents I can finally add a little gunship to my collection

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 02 Jul 2017, 19:33 
Offline

Joined: 23 Sep 2013, 21:28
Posts: 291
I have to say we are very lucky to have such a talented guy looking after our scratchbuilding for us, as usual the set is very nicely detailed and of very good quality. Included in the set are the elephant ear dust filters, the exhaust diffusion shroud and the most beautifully detailed 20mm cannon. I just hope I can do this great addition to Scaleworx catalogue justice.

Image

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2017, 07:42 
Offline

Joined: 12 Apr 2011, 20:49
Posts: 1321
Location: Zwartkop
A beautiful conversion kit!

Long overdue!

Modellers please remember to include the door frame as the frame is not removed when the door is not in place.

Geoff

PS. Many a time the Alo was flown with the front door closed


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2017, 07:45 
Offline

Joined: 12 Apr 2011, 20:49
Posts: 1321
Location: Zwartkop
As far as I remember the floor on the Alo folds downwards so as to accommodate the gun pack and also for hoisting purposes.

Will go and have a look at the real thing.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2017, 13:57 
Offline

Joined: 23 Sep 2013, 21:28
Posts: 291
Thanks for the input Geoff. I will remember to leave in the door frame when I do the cutting. What is your (or anyone else knowledgeable on this) opinion regarding whether the port side sliding door is actually left on the aircraft or not? I have seen pics where it is still in place but obviously in the fully open position. Equally I have seen pics of the door completely removed.

On the drop away floor issue, similar to above and as seems to be the case with a lot of SAAF machinery there does seem to be a mix of some with the drop away and some without (although I have only seen more modern pics with the drop away floor so could it be the cannon was being mounted on a dimishing fleet of aircraft that could also play a dual S&R configuration?)

All the resin bits have been washed, removed from the casting plugs and I will be able to get going with construction tonight.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2017, 22:12 
Offline

Joined: 23 Sep 2013, 21:28
Posts: 291
Well chaps time for a small update and apologies in advance for the out of focus pics, this cannon is so hard to photograph with an iphone

I have put the various bits of the cannon together, I may have wasted some time on carefully drilling through and installing the cannon / mounting bracket with thin wire but anyway this means it tilts up and down! Time wasted only because I realised the ammo belt wont move with it once installed, duh #-o Anyway the bits were really tiny and a bit fiddly but I managed to get them all on straight which is first prize in my books. I have sprayed on a primer coat and will commence with adding some colour tomorrow.

Image

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 06:51 
Offline

Joined: 12 Apr 2011, 20:49
Posts: 1321
Location: Zwartkop
Bushpig wrote:
On the drop away floor issue, similar to above and as seems to be the case with a lot of SAAF machinery there does seem to be a mix of some with the drop away and some without (although I have only seen more modern pics with the drop away floor so could it be the cannon was being mounted on a dimishing fleet of aircraft that could also play a dual S&R configuration?)


All the Alo 111's are capable of hoisting,carrying armament, so the drop away floor is normal (SOP) and sticks out at the bottom.

Not forgetting that the 20mm installation has it's own floor attachment that conforms to the shape of the fuselage and has the Alo floor sticking out at the bottom. :shock:

The choice of the rear compartment door open or removed is entirely up to you,I have photographic evidence of both,although predominantly with the door open and not removed.

The 20mm had the ammunition belt feed coming through the compartment wall with the expended cartridge chute (canvas) on the right of the cannon.

The single,twin and 4 four gun Browning conversion would also be great.
A single FN MAG 7.62 was used at first mounted on the door way prior to the Browning conversions.

As to the removal of the cockpit door, I would rather leave it in place or build it in the open position.
Very few Alo's had the door totally removed.

Flotation bags for the SAR role would also be a great conversion!

Geoff


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 07:42 
Offline

Joined: 23 Sep 2013, 21:28
Posts: 291
Thanks for the input again Geoff, it's nice to have real subject matter experts guiding us along.

I spoke with John regarding the option to route the ammo belt through the rear bulkhead as seen on some versions and as usual he is one step ahead of us! The belt is designed so that it can be simply flipped to the other side if you wish to show it configured that way.

I also discussed the need for the other gun configurations so lets wait and see, I guess the more of this one that sells the more motivated John is likely to be to produce other sets.


Last edited by Bushpig on 04 Jul 2017, 10:57, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 09:46 
Offline

Joined: 07 Apr 2008, 11:50
Posts: 4022
Is that the Hispano or MG151 gun?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 13:30 
Offline

Joined: 12 Apr 2011, 20:49
Posts: 1321
Location: Zwartkop
I did some research this morning.

Sometimes the ammo belt was fed from the right side but mainly from the bulkhead on the left.
This also led to a lot of configurations inside the cabin area!
The belt was fed through the bulkhead by a small slot opening with the ammunition holder behind the bulkhead wall.

The Hispano gun could be fed with ammunition from either side!
Attachment points and clips are the same on both sides.

Expended cartridges would fall straight down and collected in the two holes below the mounting.
As can be seen on the Scaleworx gun,there is a curved thin sheet that guides the expended cartridges.
This was purely to keep the cockpit /cabin area free from doppies clanging around.

Some guns, I presume the earlier versions, had the canvas bag to catch expended cartridges. I'll research this a bit more.

The port rear door was removed to enable pre-flight inspections to be done, front cabin door was left on.

Seating arrangements also varied, if the gun was fed from the right,the flight engineer seat would be removed as well as the collective, cyclic and rudder pedals.
The ammo box took up this space.

Guns fed from the left would have the flight engineer seat facing aft although having moved forward by a 100mm or so. I can measure this if needed.

Regarding the floor,as I mentioned before,the floor was dropped to allow installation of the gun.
The fuselage panel below was removed via Dzus fasteners,floor then positioned and a separate compartment was installed.
This compartment has the exact same contours as the fuselage.
All the expended cartridges fell into this compartment which was emptied after shooting.

The floor would extend out below the fuselage once the gun was installed and would be flown like this.

The fuselage panel would be installed again after removal of the gun.

I did a quick count today,there were at least 7 types of "gunships" with all the various guns and configuration fitted! :shock:

Geoff


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 12:56 
Offline

Joined: 23 Sep 2013, 21:28
Posts: 291
Thanks for the continued input Geoff. I think this snip shows what you are referring to on the floor configuration although it may be hard to replicate accurately at this scale (original pic credited to Okkert Brits on Airliners.net)

Image

So with so many configurations around I guess the message is just build it up and you won't end up too far from reality :lol:

One interesting thing I picked up last night is that the Heller kit does not include the control pedals for the pilot / co-pilot, in reality that would have made it somewhat difficult to fly! Interestingly when I look at builds of this kit very few people have actually added them (including myself in the Angolan alo I shared here a while ago!) I think I will add some though on this build just for the sake of accuracy.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 16:13 
Offline

Joined: 12 Apr 2011, 20:49
Posts: 1321
Location: Zwartkop
Yes that's the part.

Shouldn't be hard at all to replicate, I made the extra piece (floor) when I did a few gunships some years ago.

Had a quick count of my Alo's,12 of them in various schemes and configurations.
Must admit though,some are not so good and need to be replaced with better models.

The Bop Air Force also used the Alo with the 20mm.

Geoff


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 19:02 
Offline

Joined: 07 Apr 2008, 11:50
Posts: 4022
The model gun appears to be a MG151, like the one in the photo above.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 22:14 
Offline

Joined: 23 Sep 2013, 21:28
Posts: 291
John will have to confirm but I think you are right Roger

Geoff I will look at the floor cutaway tomorrow, the kit part does make allowance for it so if it adds to realism then I guess I will give it a try. If I screw it up I have a couple of the kits so I guess I can always start again. Is there any chance you could some pics of what you did?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2017, 06:22 
Offline

Joined: 12 Apr 2011, 20:49
Posts: 1321
Location: Zwartkop
Bushpig I'll give it a bash and try load some photos.

At least I can say that John has seen my models for what it's worth.

Geoff


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC + 2 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group