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PostPosted: 03 May 2012, 07:34 
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Hi Harry

Welcome tp the Forum. Instructions how to post photos can be found at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=379


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PostPosted: 03 May 2012, 10:10 
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Heerden1 wrote:
Hi Brent

I found a photo of KJ-Z amongst my Grandfathers collection. He, Hermanus Stephanus Van Heerden was ground crew with the 4 Squadron in 1943 based in North Africa. Very old photo but you can see the decals. I am in the process of re-writing his small pocket diary he kept through the year and then to translate it into English with a bit of luck.

I don't know how to post images on here but hope to figure it out soon.

Thanks
Harry van Heerden

Hiya Harry :smt006

A BIG hearty welcome to the forum :smt023

Looking forward to see & read some of your grandfathers history =D> \:D/

If you don't come right posting the pic/s, drop me a PM & we can sort something out.

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: Spitfire Mk IX's
PostPosted: 04 May 2012, 19:20 
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Location: Stellenbosch
Kremlin wrote:
Kremlin wrote:
... 41 Squadron operated four of these natural metal Spitfires. (MH931 + MH993) (MA504 + MA792) They were stripped of all excess weight, the engine was modified & they then operated in pairs. This to intercept high flying Luftwaffe Ju-86P's at +40,000ft. The idea being that one aircraft (armed only with machine guns) would climb to the altitude of the Ju-86, and force it down to the level of the second aircraft, which was armed with cannons....

W407594F wrote:
... From two sources one being the book, Squadrons of the SAAF have the lighter cannon armed went up high and forced the Ju 86 down by damaging it, to the heavier machine gun armed aircraft which would then theoretically dispatch it...


Hi there all... as I've said earlier my grandfather flew some of these SHFs in 9 Sqn... the Spits were shared between 9, 10 and 41. I've got my grandfathers logbook, and I've got a definite entry of his flying MA504. I have managed to source a few shots of the Spits as well. They look truelly gorgeous in their bare metal.

But further than that, having gone further through his logbook I've managed to track down a few of the Spit VIIIs he flew in 145Sqn RAF.

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PostPosted: 04 May 2012, 19:58 
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Hi Portamus.
Will we be able to see the logbook and photos???

Pleeeaassee
Stefaan


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PostPosted: 05 May 2012, 00:15 
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Stefaan,

Image

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My grandfather told me a very interesting story...

On page 114 of Steve Mclean's 'Squadrons of the SAAF' book... is a mention of Lt. W. Bell... where it says he was lost on a night flying exercise. Now the story of that is as follows.

Apparently the anti-aircraft guys were developing a radar guided searchlight, and had requested that an aircraft be sent up to give the thing a spin. So a young Lt was sent up in a Spit, and unfortunately he never came back. Before going up to the desert to fight, my grandfather spent a bit of time instructing, so as such he had rather alot more flying experience than most guys in the squadron. He was then tasked to go up and test the search light as well, seeing as the first aircraft never made it back.

Now picture it like this.

Single engine Spitfire, at night, over the sea. It is pitch black, few stars, no lights on the ground (due to the black out)... now imagine an incredibly bright light is pointed directly at you, and it is your task to break the search light's lock on you. Naturally you would do all sorts of aerobatics to lose the search light, but then.. which way is up??

Alot of guys will simply follow their instruments, but it isnt that simple. Artificial horizons have limits in roll and pitch (depending on your direction).... so it is very easy to 'topple' the instrument, making it useless. So you're then left with airspeed, altimeter, a gyro compass, and maybe a vertical speed indicator. To try and fly on instruments after toppling them, and thoroughly disorientating yourself... it is no wonder that the young Lt flew into the sea.

With this in mind, my grandfather setup the aircraft before starting the exercise. He trimmed his Spitfire out for a certain speed, at a certain power setting. So that when 'all hell broke loose'... he would simply have to let go of the controls, and return the power to where he had trimmed the aircraft, it would eventually return itself to level flight. It is hard to believe for non-pilot types... but an aircraft is trimmed to maintain a speed. So for example, if I trim my aircraft out to maintain 100Kts... and I increase the power, the nose of the aircraft will naturally rise as the speed increases, it will continue to rise until the speed decreases below 100Kts, at which point it will start to drop again, until the speed (increasing)... moves up passed 100Kts. The aircraft continues this porpoising until it stabilizes in the climb at 100kts. The same applies for a reduction in power.

So with the aircraft now configured, the exercise was started... and immediately my grandfather was blinded by the search light and when he tried various maneuvers to get out of the beam, he toppled the instruments. By trusting in his trim setting, he called off the exercise and returned the power to cruise setting.. and the aircraft righted itself and he returned to fight another day... and had an explanation as to why the Lt was lost.

Frightening stuff....

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PostPosted: 05 May 2012, 21:47 
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Thanks Portamus :smt023

What a story :shock: =D> =D>

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PostPosted: 05 May 2012, 22:02 
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Location: JHB
Thanks Portamus.
Nice to see more views of those shiny Spitties.
Must build one of them one day.
Stefaan


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PostPosted: 18 May 2012, 21:25 
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Location: United Kingdom
BELL W.D * 23 Lieutenant 542670V 9 Sqn SAAF Pilot 25.10.1944
Alexandria (Chatby) Military and War Memorial Cemetery, Egypt
O. 87
Son of Henry D. Bell and Mary A. Bell, of Johannesburg, Transvaal, South Africa

Spitfire Mk.Vc.T EF-694
Crashed into the sea off Alexandria. Lt Bell had been sent up at night as the target for a radar guided search light to be tested apon.

Pilot:
Lt. W.D BELL 542670V Pilot SAAF 23 † KOAS, KIFA Egypt Alexandria (Chatby) Military and War Memorial Cemetery, Egypt


Portumus I see your Grandfather flew the search light tco-op (test) on 04 October, 1944 and also flew the aircraft 694 in which Lt Bell died in on 01 Oct and 07 Oct


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PostPosted: 30 Sep 2012, 15:57 
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Hi Portamus

What was the name and service number of your grandfather?

John Engelsted


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PostPosted: 30 Sep 2012, 18:00 
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Hi Portamus.
Only saw this today.
Tthx a mil for the photos.
Shows some new serials for those HF Spitties.
Thx
Stefaan


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PostPosted: 15 Oct 2012, 17:49 
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Location: Stellenbosch
W407594F wrote:

Portumus I see your Grandfather flew the search light tco-op (test) on 04 October, 1944 and also flew the aircraft 694 in which Lt Bell died in on 01 Oct and 07 Oct



It is possible that he flew the same aircraft. Regarding the serials.. it may be possible that the Spit he flew had different batch code (MN, MH, JF, FE), depending on where they were built etc.

That being said, while the old man was extremely meticulous with his logbook details one has to realize the effect of war. He may have entered an aircraft code incorrectly, as I dont know how frequently he would have filled in the logbook, but there seem to be regular gaps in his sorties. I've been sourcing some 145 Sqn Spitfire codes (I want to build a MkVIII as his favored bird), and there were sorties in the Squadron War Diaries that werent in his logbook and vice versa. I was told by the guy who sent them to me, that the logbook would be the more accurate of the two.

I've also found conflicts regarding the aircraft letter to serials. For example two different ZX-Rs or ZX-D and ZX-M.

JF274 VIII 3660 EA M61 FF 24-11-42 First prod VIII Hand Sqdn Hullavington 29-11-42 AST 21-6-43 VAWD 9-11-43 wts and CG load 82MU 11-5-44 Argyll 1-6-44 Casablanca 13-6-44 MedAAF 21-6-45 'ZX-V' SOC 27-3-47

JF274 was the first production MkVIII Spitfire. She retained the extended wing tips inhereted from the MkVII Spits. He always spoke of it fondly and mentioned it several times in his logbook. I'm desperately searching for a photograph of it.

Stefaan,

I will certainly take more photos of it and my step grandfathers logbooks should you require. We potentially have access to 4Sqn Tomahawk/Kittyhawk codes as well as 9 Sqn Spitfire V and IX.

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PostPosted: 15 Oct 2012, 18:03 
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Hi Portamus.
Thx, I also have some codes and serials.
Craig Buzby is the biggest guy on P-40 serials in the world.
Be good
Stefaan


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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2012, 20:43 
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Hi Portamus

What was the name and service number of your grandfather?

The reason I keep asking is that I research Spitfire pilots and units and would like to have him correct entered in my database.

John Engelsted


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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2012, 21:04 
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Location: JHB
Wow John.
You have a mammoth task.!!!!!
How good are you on SAAF Spit pilots???
There are 100rds.
maybe we can help.
What data per pilot do you need??
Stefaan Bouwer.


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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2012, 21:24 
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Yeah, I know it's a huge task, but I enjoy it even when it takes up most of my spare time.

I keep these data for pilots:

- Basic data like full name and servicenumber(s)
- Postings
- Awards
- Accidents
- Kills
- Sorties (with date, time, purpose, a/c serial and code if available)

For aircraft (both Spitfire and Hurricane):

- Movements
- Accidents
- Codes
- Final fate

Primary sources are ORB's and logbooks, but also a huge amount of books, magazines and web-sites.

I am always looking for logbooks for my research (and I am sorry not to have heard from Portamus).

I have data on nearly 1200 South African and Rhodesian pilots.

John


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