The SAAF Forum

It is a big problem. I mean countries like Angola Nigeria extra have better Air defense systems than us.

How many 35mm Oerlikons does the army have?
What happened to the idea of mounting them on a vehicle? Towed AA guns is just so 20th century!
I know a protype twin 35 SPAAG using Denel guns (the same as used on the frigates 35DPG) was built on a Rooikat chassis back in the 1980s, but I vaguely remember reading about planns to put the Oerlikon 35s on trucks - similar to the 23mm Zumlacs.
Maybe they are waiting for new trucks as the Samil fleet is really old?

BTW what is the current status of the truck replacement project - on hold, like so many other logistics projects?
Without a proper logistics system a military force is not much use.

Bottom line is that it is a big country and with many strategic installations and there is no way any air defence system we can afford could cover more than a tiny fraction of that. That's what the SAAF is for. Air Defence systems are last ditch final desperation weapons - and historically not very effective wherever they have been used. It is also amazing that in the past few decades guns have often outperformed the missiles in this role, at least in land based applications. BTW Roger I have a feeling (and a photo somewhere) of your gun not on a Rooikat chassis but a Ratel chassis.

Ground based air defence systems primary role is to protect troops on the ground - convoys, camps, etc - and of couse in battle too - scrambling a fighter to take out a couple of enemy helicopters delivering troops onto the battlefield is a lot less effective than having a gun or SAM handy to deal with them yourself. Fighters can't provide 24/7 cover for troops on the move.
GBADS exist to protect local area high value targets, not an entire country.

Your definition of the primary role would come as a great surprise to military planners everywhere. It is certainly one of the roles but hardly the major one. Historically this has been shown repeatedly - point defence of strategic installations taking precedence. As to dealing with choppers - it need not be very sophisticated, especially if the choppers are stupid enough to deplane the troops that close to the front line. MANPADS and 20 to 30mm calibre weapons being adequate. In fact something like DENEL's Rogue mounted on a truck would give many chopper pilots a hard time! especially allied to a 20, 25 or 30 mm gun.

Bottom line in defence against aircraft is that most of the advantage is with the aircraft. As the F-117 pilot over Baghdad was reputed to have said - you close your eyes to the tracer and fly on!

Possibly the most successful AA weapon to date (counting aircraft shot down) has been the humble Russian 23 mm in a variety of mounts and using a variety of guidance systems. Advantage of a gun is that it can also be used against land based targets! You haven't lived till youv'e seen a ZSU-23-4 mounted on the back of a Dodge LDV firing away!

My big problem is that it is not Mobil enough. But I know it will not be to hard to mount our ADA on vehicles.


Best thing about a gun is jut you can not jam or confuse the rounds.


I mean shoot a SA7 at a modern jet and the most likely out come is you being bombed.


I would like to see a few 20mm rouge on a ground vehicle. You could put a lot of led up.

The perennial problem with AA guns is that as the calibre increases the number of rounds that can be carried decreases, so does the rate of fire and the mobility. The eternal debate is to just where the happy medium lies - and I think, to date, and probably by accident, the Russians found it with their 23 mm. At least for close-in work. The US 25mm chain gun also looks very promising in this role but has not had nearly the same battlefield exposure, so experience is limited.

Why is it that here in SA we just can't get going with anything? The are so many innovative and brilliant defence projects that never get past paper/technology demonstrator phase. The local industry is churning out brilliant concepts but very few get to the SANDF. Roovalk, Biro, GBADS etc... These things just drag on and on for years and years.

The big thing is money or shod I say not enough money. And it is not a south african problem but a global one. Look at the F35 F22 V22 the anti mine system that a sub could launch. Or the American paldain artillery system spent years in project phase then cancelled. I am only going for big well known projects. There are many projects that happen. Some small some big. Most stay at the talks level and only a few get out of the project phase.

If you have that photo Eugene, it would be most appreciated.

When a mobile SPAAG was looked at, the Ratel, Rooikat, and G6 platforms were considered I believe.

A slightly extended Rooikat chassis was selected and a prototype built on this before the programme was cancelled due to the massive defence cuts in the early 1990's.

So if you do have a photo of a Ratel based concept, it would be most interesting indeed.

I may have to backpedal on this - I have been through a zillion dusty old Paratuses - which is where I'm sure it was on the inside back cover and can't find it. But then I could not find the Tank Technology Demonstrator either - which I was also positive was on the back page of a Paratus. It was probably in something else altogether - I'll tackle the IDF's, and Jane's tomorrow. And if I can't find it there the Military Technology's ....

I have an old copy of a Military Technology buried somewhere on a bookshelf that featured the mobile twin 35 prototype in an article about SADF (yes it's that old) modernisation, I'll excavate it tomorrow.

If you are right I have been looking in the wrong place.

Rooikat chassis

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Brent Best

Armed Forces November 1991.

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Brent Best