The SAAF Forum

An Oryx may be a bit big for such a small ship, something smaller (BK117 replacement?) would probably be a better fit.
I agree that missiles such as Exocet and Umkhonto are too much for it but Mokopa (radar guided version with an anti-ship warhead) and Starstreak might make sense although an OTO 76 is the intended main weapon.

A109 then but needs helicopter capability.

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"Kwassie"

The A109 is a piece of junk, far too lightweight and fragile for the harsh conditions of maritime service.
It already has serious problems in land based light utility service.

So what then order 3 more Lynx? I quite like the Lynx as it has proven itself overseas. Some patrol vessels are already equipped with them. As the OPV's will be kitted out for SAR missions a helicopter will prove to be essential.

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"Kwassie"

This is a sentiment that I've read before on this Forum.

- What is the problem with it?
- What do those say that fly and maintain this machine?
- Did SAAF make a bad choice in procuring this helicopter?

I agree that it is not a maritime helicopter in the same mould as a Lynx, neither was it acquired for that purpose. So for Project Biro it must be a non starter.

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Your statement is based on?

The Swedes use their LUH in a maritime capacity.
There is nothing wrong with the A109. It's the application that is the problem.

The A109 is a good helicopter - as an executive transport (flying limosine).
As a hard working utility machine it is simply not robust enough.
There is a recent topic about the issue somewhere here.

Guys, i think we're jumping the gun here...getting too excited.
Bear in mind that our Naval personnel, can barely compliment the current vessels that we have, fully.
Im sure the Navy will not buy too many new "bigger" vessels, than the current OPV and IPV's.
Also, i do not think that the new vessels will in the near future be equipped to accomodate heli's (in a hangar), but merely to have a heli-pad available for operations.
Another thing to think of, is that there will soon be a new replenishment vessel required. Where will that crew come from?

There is no money.

Just saying...

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Rosh

The crews already exist because these acquisitions are replacements for already existing ships. The SAN currently has two former strike craft (missiles removed) in the OPV role and three T-craft IPVs that all need to be replaced. The OPVs would most likely have smaller crews than the current ships anyway - more modern technology tends to reduce the hands-on workload.

I believe the OPV hangar question is still open, we need to wait for the RfI process to complete then see what the RfP after that delivers. Only then will we see what the manufacturers have in mind although their existing products for comparable navies are of course a strong indication. As you say, it's still very early days in the process.

The money is already budgeted - take another look at the current three year plan.

budgeted for?

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Rosh

The medium term budget plan includes an increase to defence to allow for new ships.

Have you seen this article on DefenceWeb yet?
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18869:dcns-and-knd-sign-agreement-to-construct-gowind-offshore-patrol-vessels-in-south-africa&catid=51:Sea&Itemid=106

The Panther AS565 MB..is a better choice..medium helicopter..and proven as a Maritime helicopter
The Lynx has a range of 592km vs the 790km of the Panther.

.I believe the Lynx is too small to be a proper Maritime helicopter.on a large ship.I would suggest to keep the current fleet of 4 Lynx's for the new ships..and have 4 new Panthers ordered for the corvette's that we currently have.

info

For SAR and MEDEVAC missions, the AS565 MB has a flexible cabin that enables operators to tailor the configuration to their exact needs. It is rapidly reconfigurable as roles change, and can be equipped with the latest medical equipment. The AS565 MB’s SAR credentials are the best in the world: It has been the benchmark for medium range SAR aircraft for many years and continues to set the standard. The US Coast Guard, for example, currently operates over 100 Panther helicopters.

or all types of naval missions, the AS565 MB perfectly fits the bill. Quiet and cost effective, the AS565 MB significantly multiplies a surface ship’s ability to conduct surveillance, Anti-Surface unit Warfare (ASuW) and Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW). With an endurance of four hours, the AS565 MB is an affordable and valuable alternative to medium-class helicopters which are limited in their ability to perform full anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare (ASW/ASuW) missions. AS565 MB is an enabler and a force multiplier with an excellent record.

Maritime surveillance
Surface ships can only search within a limited area due to limitations imposed by its aerial height and speed. Equipped with an advanced search radar, the AS565 MB increases a ship’s capacity to perform surveillance by a factor of 10.

Extensive SAR Equipment:

4-axis Automatic Flight Control System (AFCS)
Flight Management System (FMS) with doppler and GPS
Search and weather radar
FLIR (optional)
Variable speed electric Class 1 rescue hoist:
0 to 1.3 m/sec (0 to 250 ft/min)
Cargo sling load with dynamometer:
907 kg (2,000 lbs) or 1,600 kg (2,500 lbs), depending on configuration
Emergency floatation gear
Stretcher-supporting structure
Loudspeaker and search light
MEDEVAC installation.
SAR and Assistance Mission Profiles

160 NM radius of action to hoist 2 to 4 survivors
+ 20 min. reserve (no cabin tank) at sea level ISA + 20°C
105 NM radius of action to sling 400 kg load
+ 20 min. reserve (cabin tank) at sea level ISA + 20°C.

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Nice sounds like a taylor made heli!

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"Kwassie"

I doubt the new OPV (or corvettes as you call them) will get dedicated helicopters.

The Lynx is an excellent maritime helicopter - it serves in many navies and operates from a wide range of different ships, far more than the AS565MB.

The differences in the specs are not so big as to justify the expense and complexity of having two types for exactly the same job.
In any case the OPVs don't do "heavy duty" combat jobs such as directly hunting enemy surface ships and submarines, that's the job of the frigates, so giving them heavily armed and equipped maritime combat helicopters doesn't make sense anyway.

looks Like DCNS has signed a MOU with the sa navy for OPV



http://en.dcnsgroup.com/naval/products/ ... v-corvette

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