The SAAF Forum

Some nice stuff - play past the photos and there is some good footage of the T-50.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25noDnArAqg

There are some rather bizarre looking camo schemes on a few of them.

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Lovely stuff! Give me a Russian machine over American anyday...

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Almost spilled my tea over the keyboard then ....

However, Russian aircraft do have a grace of their own in flight. Perhaps because they are more hands-on machines that needs to be flown with muscle and brains, whereas American planes have become very reliant on computers and computing capacity, to the extent where a bad pilot can get away with mistakes.

I remember reading an article once that said all prospective Russian pilots, as part of their initial training, had to fully understand and grasp the science of what makes an aircraft fly in the first place - that does not mean the engine! They had to understand about airflow over various surfaces, aerodynamics, the laws of physics as applicable to aviation etc etc. Only once these exams were passed did they get anywhere near an aircraft. The notion was that there was no relying on 'fly by wire' to get you out of trouble.

Perhaps some of this is evident when we watch Russian aircraft being put through their paces. Remember the first time we saw a Mig 29(?) in SA, performing 'Pugachevsky's Cobra' at Waterkloof in 1995?

What approach does SAAF take on this? Anyone know?

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I would think that aerodynamics are part of any basic pilot training course. It certainly is in the SAAF.

How can you learn to fly a plane without first doing theory in aerodynamics ?

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Principles of Flight
No matter what you fly, where you fly, you need to pass that subject.

@ Skyhawk: I actually did things backwards; I flew aircraft before I was taught all the aerodynamic properties. But at the end of the day, yes, a pilot does need to know what makes a plane go up and stay up.

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[Sardine]
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Awsome aircraft, thanks for posting. Definitely my favourite aircraft and still way ahead of the Yanks. I remember the 'Cobra' display well, it was unbelievable.

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@gripen. .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpie7-lhok8

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"My dream is that somehow South Africans and Zimbabweans create relationships of such a nature that the Limpopo river is no longer a border, but is a source of water and food.” -Bishop Paul Verryn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueEbv02k7Ag

"Everything you push against, lifts you up."

Perfect timing; feeling the strain of landing that first flying job.

Skyhawk, thanks for posting.

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Hmm I am not sure whether or not you have seen the F-22 raptor in action?

Puts these boys to shame. It is the only aircraft I have ever seen deliberately enter
a flat spin and come out at low level - no problems.

For your delictation and delight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW2Hvu_mUdU

The thing the most people do npot realise when you look at these spectacular maneouvers
is that they are essentially useless in a dogfight. In actual fact it would be downright dangerous
to do so because you would lose so much energy. I am not an expert in this matter however
it would seem to me that in a multi-bogey furball the worst possible thing for you to do
woud be to pull these kinds of maneuvers. You would be so incredibly vulnerable.
You would be out of energy and out of options - snoopy in a piper cub with a .22 could shoot
you down. Even if you were to recover the energy the fuel burn would be so spectacular
that you would still drastically reduce your options due to lack of fuel.
Anyway that is my 2c worth.

Monique , American machines are better than Russian machines. Russians are playing catch up and its evident. F22 is already operational and if it wasnt for the oxygen problems there was a possibilly it could have seen action in Libya. T50 at least 2020.earlier Migs such as 23 had no radar warning receiver thats why Syria lost so many. Mig29 does not have a Heads up display according to the air combat magazine. Russian cockpits are cluttered. I give them thumbs up for the helicopter with the ejector seat.

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"My dream is that somehow South Africans and Zimbabweans create relationships of such a nature that the Limpopo river is no longer a border, but is a source of water and food.” -Bishop Paul Verryn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueEbv02k7Ag

If you saw my previous posts about the F22, you'll see they cannot operate outside of the states, too temperamental and maintenance heavy. As for all the maneuvers, the Russians have been doing them since 85 and the Yanks are only catching up now. Don't fall for their propaganda. Most space launches these days use Russian rockets.

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"If the engine says Pratt and Whitney, the seat better say Martin-Baker."

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All of those antics in the air count for nought, nothing, zilch. Razzle-dazzle, smoke and afterburners, fancy paint jobs, they are buggerall else but crowd entertainment. Yes, I enjoy watching it too and living in the UK has many advantages when it comes to Airshows - BIG Airshows!
But when the chips are down and pilots are about to die in combat, you need the technological advantage to survive and arrive safely back at base. Look at the millions being spent on BVRAAM and the ability to kill your opponent before he knows what's hit him - Fact. Some fighter jets don't even have canon these days. A Russian doing a U turn with a still-standing aeroplane is a dead Russian; a Draadkar (Alouette lll) with a pair of 20mm Hispanos will take him out!


The 'Yanks' need no propaganda. They have been actively involved in some form of combat non-stop since the Gulf War of 1991, and has the finest modern day military machine on this planet. Their military prowess and technological capability are the envy of all and sundry out there in the real world. The Russians are nowhere to be seen.

People may not like the 'Yanks', that's fine, but then say so outright. The rest of it is just daydreaming.

With respect.

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Ja, I hear you. But when the computer says no?

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