The SAAF Forum

I m not sure what victory means because the opposition was under equipped and did not have air power and we went on to lose :

-Three Chengdu F7s
-I have heard of a hawk that was shot by a MANPAD
-SF.260MC
-a couple of helicopters were shot down
-Economy ruined

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I have always believed if done right , armed robbery doesn't have to be a totally unpleasant experience- Brad Pitt as J.D in Thelma and Louise

Zim went to the DRC to defend the Kabila government and its people against the rebel invasion. Due to effective use of superior firepower they managed to bring the seemingly invincible and unstoppable rebel advance to a screetching halt in the outskirts of Kinshasa.
The so called rebels had significant elements of regular Burundan and Rwandan troops, they were never under equiped and had access to aircraft to move troops and equipment. Skyhawk77- don't forget who was chased out of Mogadishu by under equiped bare footed Somalis armed with AK-47s and RPG-7s.
True, Zim's economy may not have been at its best when she sent troops to the DRC and during that war equipment-including aircraft- were lost. Sadly a number of our brave men and women went down in battle, but- "Skyhawk77"- all this was not in vain because the rebels were eventually defeated and only after winning the war did Zim-together with Angola and Namibia- leave the DRC-and yes- victoriously!

i strongly think it was an "easy war" and GVT of zim should have wrapped up things earlier without losing much hardware. i heard at some point during the war a deal with the Chinese was made to provide more F7s. how many planes were lost.

I salute all those who lost their lives in the war for peace. May their souls rest in peace.

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I have always believed if done right , armed robbery doesn't have to be a totally unpleasant experience- Brad Pitt as J.D in Thelma and Louise

Your reference to Mogadishu can only mean the UN peace keeping force there, mainly the USA.

They were not chased out, dig deeper, prior to the mission that is shown in the "hollywood movie as Blackhawk Down" the US commander had requested /wanted heavy armour and more fire power etc. This was request was denied on the grounds he was doing a "Peace Keeping" mission. The HUMWEE is not designed for the combat role it is used in, it is a means of transport and has had armour palting added on to fufill a role it was never designed for in the begining. With one Spectra C-130 circling those militia would have been toast. The Geneva convention also limits what can and can not be used when civillian populations are present in such built up areas.

This incident has harmed Africa more than it has helped her, as the average American can not see why they should help out in Africa in any manner. Especially now that the same chaps are pleading for international aid.

The MPLA government were and are a contradiction. The critisie the USA but sell their oil to them.
During the border war Cubans were guarding the oil facilities in Cabinda from UNITA/SADF raids whom the US was giving limited aid in the form of weapons etc through Zaire (DRC) then the oil pumped was going to the USA

The DRC war was the longest war in modern Africa, it began in Aug 1998, sucked in 8 nations, involved 25 rebel and national armies and killed over 5 million people by the time it ended in July 2003.
Skyhawk77...do you still want to strongly think this was an easy war?

SA faced a stronger opposition in the form of Cuba and they put a good fight thereby giving themselves an opportunity to claim victory. The rebels were "pedestrians" they did not have much hardware , at some point they walked 2000 km. They are worlds apart from the Libyan type so i don't think they were very strong i mean Executive outcomes would have done a quicker job with a few million dollars ,a flogger ,3 hinds ,1 Antonov and 500 men.

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I have always believed if done right , armed robbery doesn't have to be a totally unpleasant experience- Brad Pitt as J.D in Thelma and Louise

...Same goes for this thread.

Mod: Your wish, my command.

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Which guns or missiles did the rebels use to bring down several aircraft during the DRC war?

Wikipedia says Mistral missile is infrared homing surface-to-air missile has a success rate of 95% during training. Range 4km-5.4km. length 1.8m Diameter 90mm and a speed of Mach 2.6


After his recovery from injuries sustained during the Congo War, Flt Lt Michael Enslin (left) went on to win the AFZ's prestigious “Jungle Dustbin” gunnery trophy, with a record score. This photo shows Enslin together with the previous record-holder, Flt Lt Sam Sigauke. (AFZ Magazine, 2001)

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I have always believed if done right , armed robbery doesn't have to be a totally unpleasant experience- Brad Pitt as J.D in Thelma and Louise

Interesting post there Skyhawk.

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A plan is simply a basis for change.

What a scorcher! Pictures of pilots and aircraft of the AFZ, especially those of hero pilots like Enslin and Sigauke, are very hard to come by.
Thanks Skyhawk77, I found your post both interesting and informative. If you can, kindly tell us more about the "Jungle Dustbin"

i don't know anything about the jungle dustbin i will research. I m happy you and H1017412 found my post informative and interesting. I hope you don't think the DRC war (AFZ) air campaign was a one man show

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I have always believed if done right , armed robbery doesn't have to be a totally unpleasant experience- Brad Pitt as J.D in Thelma and Louise

The 'Jungle Dustbin' trophy has its origins in the former Rhodesia. Herewith an extract from Contact II by Paul L Moorcraft:-


Let's see what skyhawk77 comes up with.

Thank you.



This post was edited by me so as to include the above photo.

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https://www.flickr.com/photos/tallyho2015/albums

thank you for sparing me the trouble. i m certain i wasn't going to be able to come up with something so brilliant and believable.

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I have always believed if done right , armed robbery doesn't have to be a totally unpleasant experience- Brad Pitt as J.D in Thelma and Louise

Impressive! I am very well answered. I and many others now know what the Jungle Dustbin is... and what it signifies. You know your staff Tally-ho! Thanks.
So the AFZ continued with this interesting tradition to the present day...!