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Discussion on the SAAF and other southern African air forces.
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PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 11:54 
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cool man we need more of that kind of info keep it coming =D> =D> :D


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PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 14:23 
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You say after training u owe the SAAF for the training what would happen in a case where one chooses to leave the service for whatever reason do you pay the money back over or time or what is the procedure. And do they deduct from your salary if you continue service to pay back the training costs?


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PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 15:23 
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There is a very detailed training contract you must sign before you commence your flight training.

Basicaly, this contract stipulates the amount you owe the SAAF with respect to your training and how it is 'paid' back, ie, a portion of the training cost is deemed to have been repaid for every year of service completed in the SAAF since you gained your Wings.

If you leave the SAAF before the period is up, then the contract stipulates how much you must actualy repay for every year you leave early.


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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2009, 19:12 
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The standard contract is 13 yrs regardless of the amount you owe- some people complete course with WELL over 200 hrs therefor owing much more than the average pupe yet they also only work back 13 yrs. It will be interesting to see the contracts that the current Pilots Wings Course have signed, they are doing their ab-initio training at Grand Central Airport on piston aircraft. It is therefor much cheaper to train pupes and they should therefor have shorter contracts? But who knows?!

Worth mentioning is that you never owe the SAAF less even if you work for a few years then decide to leave. Although you work back your training costs you are accumulating MACIP debt (Pilots incentive allowance) and if you leave you have to pay that allowance back- so you always owe +-1.2 Million... even if you work back 12 of your 13 years! ;-)

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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2009, 17:30 
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Thats ridiculous! How on earth did they manage to calculate that?! That system does not make any logical sense whatsoever...

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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2009, 17:56 
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While I cannot add anythign further on the payback periods, the service contract is generally as follows:

All recruits in the SAAF initially receive a two year Military Skills Development System (MSDS) contract upon joining the military, including the pupil pilots and navigators.

After 18 months service training (successful completion of Basic Military Training, Officers Formative course and Certificate in the Military Academy), they receive a three-year Core Service System (CSS) contract when commencing their pupil pilot or navigator training.

When they qualify as pilots or navigators in the three-year period (wings date), they receive a thirteen-year contract to serve as a pilot or navigator in the Air Force.


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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2009, 18:06 
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but in total you will be in the SAAF for about 18 years. This is from the moment you go to basics till you finish your 13 year contract.

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PostPosted: 04 Nov 2009, 13:03 
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Nope, only 16 yrs- 3 yrs for all your training and then 13 yrs after. You sign a three year contract when you start Flying phase but that phase is only meant to last a year. The 3 yr contract allows you to take three years to complete your one year flying course. This helps the guys who experiance medical problems (for example) who are then delayed and don't complete their training along with the rest of their course. It also gives them a deadline so if they don't come right the SAAF can end their training.
If you complete the flying phase in a year, the other two yrs of that contract fall away and you commence with the 13 yr contract.

Flyerboy- it is completely ridiculous. Welcome the SAAF!

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PostPosted: 04 Nov 2009, 17:20 
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Ha Ha- Well I guess nobody signed up bacause they wanted to work for a sensible system... It's all about the flying :-) I sent my application in a couple of weeks ago.... And I know I wouldn't hesitate to sign the contract!

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PostPosted: 04 Nov 2009, 17:33 
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On 11 september 2009 SAAF Lt.Gen Carlo Gagiano pinned wings on 21 young pilots, 2 navigators, and 1 flight engineer.they started military training on 17 january 2006.

12 african males
2 african females
3 white males
1 white female
2 coloured males
1 indian male

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PostPosted: 04 Nov 2009, 19:33 
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Tweety wrote:
It will be interesting to see the contracts that the current Pilots Wings Course have signed, they are doing their ab-initio training at Grand Central Airport on piston aircraft. It is therefor much cheaper to train pupes and they should therefor have shorter contracts? But who knows?!


Will this affect the current pupil pilots doing their first year of their MSDS contracts, I really don't want to go back to piston aircraft, I was looking forward to flying the Astra.


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PostPosted: 04 Nov 2009, 19:43 
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The SAAF has been looking for a while now for a piston side-by-side trainer for ab-initio training. While this group is flying at a civilian school I don't think this is the SAAF's long term plan. I reken they are in the process of procuring a trainer and in the mean time are using the civi school. The gossip is that the course will do their first +- 60? hrs on the pistons, then be streamed to their lines (helicopter, fighter, transport) and then do further training on the astra's. I'm not sure if at that point the heli guys will be sent to do their heli conversions (would make sense) and not fly the astra at all? This whole thing is very new and time will tell what the SAAF's intentions are.

But yeah I think that piston training is here to stay- it costs the SAAF too much just using astra's.

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2009, 10:14 
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I know 13 years sound like a long time. But if you decide to exit then and fly for the airlines - man, you are going to earn MegaBucks. With all that hours and being a Military pilot...
But then again, you may end up on jets or helicopters, and decide to stay on for the rest of your life. And end up like the Glen Wardens and Des Barkers of the SAAF - with over 5000 hours on jets (if not 10 000)... WOW!!!
And remember, even if you flew a Flossie for the last 10 years, you're probably flying it at a much higher level than you'll ever fly a Boeing ( I think of the Border War type landings - I experienced those in the early 80's ).
I saw Mike Edwards and Ivan Pentz in Vlamgat (then Mirage F1 pilots) - Gripen and Hawk pilots today. They must have MegaHours by now...
And I have to agree with an article Des Barker wrote in AirNews some time ago: why go fly a Boeing if you're flying a Hawk / Cheetah / Impala / Gripen.
If you want to become a pilot for money - go do your commercial license straight away - don't waste your own (AND the SAAF's) time and money - and MORE IMPORTANTLY, another person's spot that would've given a body part to fly for the SAAF.


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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2009, 10:23 
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nice one. airforces should make pilots sign a 30 year unbreakable contract because many pilots are using it as a stepping stone.

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2009, 19:36 
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:lol:
Rynopot- I enjoy your enthusiasm. The tactical/operational flying that the SAAF does is awesome and beats the "Take-off, autopilot,land" routine of the airlines but flying 10 hours a month? Come on, after your 13 yrs you have less than 2000 hrs just enough to get your ATP? I'm sure the airlines are dying to have such um... experianced pilots! :roll:

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