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PostPosted: 01 May 2015, 17:36 
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Good day everyone,

I'm new here, so bear with me. I have been trying to find information on the Olifant Mk.1a tank for some time now. From everything I have seen-read, the Olifant is the IDF Shot Centurion with some changes to it. Like the turret bins etc. But essentially it's the IDF version of the Centurion. Obviously I could be wrong on this. So I'm looking for some schematics, detailed diagrams etc.. of the Olifant to convert my 1/35 scale AFV IDF Shot Centurion into the Olifant Mk. 1a.

Can anyone direct me to a web site or a book, where I can find detailed plans for the Olifant Mk. 1a ?

What i'm looking for : example : is the glacis plate a different angle ? thicker ? and I know the bins on the back of the Olifant is different, but what about the turret itself ? So you see I'm still trying to figure this out. I can't find a Cromwell Models 1/35 conversion for the Olifant, so who better to ask, but you guys.

I appreciate your help.
thanks

B.


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PostPosted: 01 May 2015, 22:39 
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The Sho't (Hebrew for "Whip") is what the Israelis called the original Centurions as they got them - with 105mm L7 guns.
The Sho't Kal (with four different subvariants; Alef, Bet, Gimel and Dalet) were modernised Sho't that received Continental AVDS-1790-2A diesel engines and Allison CD850-6 transmissions in addition to other changes that differed between the subvariants.

The Sho't Kal entered service in 1970; by 1974 all Israeli Centurions were upgraded to Sho't Kal. Subvariants indicate upgrades received by Sho't Kal tanks during their operational life, including a new turret rotating mechanism, a new gun stabilizer, a new fire-control system and preparations for the installation of the Blazer Reactive armour.

The Olifant Mk1A entered service in 1985 - fifteen years later than the Sho't Kal so it would be strange if it was identical to it. By that time the Israelis were already using the Merkava.


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PostPosted: 01 May 2015, 23:12 
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Thanks for the reply. Some time ago, i read that SADF had purchased the Centurions from Israel when they were changing over to the Merkava. If that was the case then I can see them re-working the tanks to their specifications / needs. This is why I'm asking if there are any diagrams / schematics etc.. showing how the tank actually was setup.


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PostPosted: 01 May 2015, 23:19 
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The Semel was prety close to the israly centurions but by the time the Oliphant MK1a came about it was a new beast


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PostPosted: 01 May 2015, 23:31 
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From the various photos out there, i can see that it's quite a puppy for sure ! that bin on the back for one.. Do you know if the glacis plate is different ? it seems to be "thicker" than the regular Centurions' . Or it might just be the quality of the photos.


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PostPosted: 01 May 2015, 23:46 
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On of the reviews I read was that the Cromwell Models 1/35 Olifant conversion kit was very good. But as far as I now it's not being sold anymore. I'm not sure if this works, but this is the conversion model i am thinking of

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/Njg1WDEyMjk=/z/ADsAAOSwstxVB3VU/$_57.JPG


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PostPosted: 02 May 2015, 00:06 
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The sources I've seen say the original Centurions came from Britain and later India and Jordan.

If SA acquired Sho't Kal from Israel during the early 1980s it is news to me, but not entirely impossible, there was a lot of "under the table" dealing going on at that time that has only become known to the public recently. However many sources report that "scrap" Centurions from India were the basis of the Semel and Olifant upgrade programs.

I have found a source that says the Semel was based on the Sho't Kal - built on "scrap" hulls bought from India - http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... lifant.htm

BTW the basic difference between the Sho't and the Sho't Kal is that the Kal is an upgrade that replaced the original British petrol engine with a Teledyne Continental diesel engine.

This page contains a detailed history but as it is written for game players it may not be entirely reliable - http://www.pmulcahy.com/tanks/south_african_tanks.html

This is DefenceWeb's Fact File - reliable but not very detailed - http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?o ... Itemid=159

Army Guide - use with care, the site is not considered reliable by Wikipedia - http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product894.html


Last edited by Roger the Dodger on 02 May 2015, 00:42, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 02 May 2015, 00:32 
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Roger from the pmulcahy site I assume that "152mm armour (sloped) across front." is referring to the glacis front end. From what i read the Centurions had a 118mm glacis. so it was "thickened" by 34mm (1.33inches) ?


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PostPosted: 02 May 2015, 00:38 
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If this is the case for the glacis thickness, it is then in 1/35 scale, it's 0.038 inches..


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PostPosted: 02 May 2015, 01:20 
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This is a nice source. No semel pics or even olifant mk1s. But they where never built in large numbers or in servis long.
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldw ... nt_MkI.php


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PostPosted: 02 May 2015, 01:23 
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Thank you ! it's interesting to see that the road wheel spacing is different between the Mk1a and the Mk1b . I'm going to have to be careful doing one of these tanks.


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PostPosted: 02 May 2015, 06:45 
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They seem to exaggerate it a bit.

Image




Image


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PostPosted: 02 May 2015, 10:13 
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Joined: 14 Mar 2007, 16:57
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Location: ILS RWY19, FACT (Cape Town)
Hiya Burt

Here's some scans from different editions of old VEG magazines, by Pierre Lowe Victor.

It covers the Olifant from Centurion to Mk.2, not sure if you've seen these, maybe they can be of use.

Olifant.pdf
I've combined the scans into a 7mb pdf.

_________________
Brent Best


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PostPosted: 02 May 2015, 12:35 
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Thank you!!! I never knew many of the details. I have been a centurion buff for many years, but when it came to the olifant there was always a gray area.


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PostPosted: 04 May 2015, 10:19 
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The Mk1B driver's "office"
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