The SAAF Forum

Discussion on the SAAF and other southern African air forces.
It is currently 17 Jul 2019, 12:39

All times are UTC + 2 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 374 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 25  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2013, 08:34 
Offline

Joined: 14 Aug 2010, 17:30
Posts: 82
I don't know if anyone is still following this story, but it looks like things are about to get heated.

M23 Rebels, South Africa Troops Take “War Positions”

“At the present moment South African forces have taken positions which are less than 15 kilometres away from M23 positions in Munigi on the outskirts of Goma,” said a source, adding, “The Tanzanian forces have also arrived in Uvira, South Kivu Province and the Tanzanian commander of the troops is in Goma town.”


It also emerged that at least 30 French military personnel had jetted in and were residing at The Linda Hotel in Goma.


Intelligence sources say M23 combatants have for the last three months been deeply embroiled in covert training of at least 10,000 guerilla commandos who are expected to engage the UN intervention Brigade any time from now.


The rebels intend to seize the provincial town of Goma to cut off supplies to the UN intervention Brigade.


Impeccable military sources told this website that Makenga has already resolved that should his men be attacked, he will advance, strike and seize Goma with the view of marching to Kinshasha to topple President Joseph Kabila.
http://www.chimpreports.com/#sthash.Qac ... kaN37.dpuf


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2013, 10:01 
Offline

Joined: 03 Mar 2008, 08:21
Posts: 1581
A Darter wrote:
I don't know if anyone is still following this story, but it looks like things are about to get heated.

M23 Rebels, South Africa Troops Take “War Positions”

“At the present moment South African forces have taken positions which are less than 15 kilometres away from M23 positions in Munigi on the outskirts of Goma,” said a source, adding, “The Tanzanian forces have also arrived in Uvira, South Kivu Province and the Tanzanian commander of the troops is in Goma town.”


It also emerged that at least 30 French military personnel had jetted in and were residing at The Linda Hotel in Goma.


Intelligence sources say M23 combatants have for the last three months been deeply embroiled in covert training of at least 10,000 guerilla commandos who are expected to engage the UN intervention Brigade any time from now.


The rebels intend to seize the provincial town of Goma to cut off supplies to the UN intervention Brigade.


Impeccable military sources told this website that Makenga has already resolved that should his men be attacked, he will advance, strike and seize Goma with the view of marching to Kinshasha to topple President Joseph Kabila.
http://www.chimpreports.com/#sthash.Qac ... kaN37.dpuf



Still watching M23 shouting it's threats and complianing.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2013, 11:13 
Offline

Joined: 07 Apr 2008, 11:50
Posts: 4222
How big is M23? What troops and equipment do they have?
The same question of the Intervention brigade?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2013, 11:41 
Offline

Joined: 14 Aug 2010, 17:30
Posts: 82
M23 have a few heavy weapons (AA guns and tanks)

The intervention force is 850 troops each from SA, Tanzania and Malawi.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2013, 12:54 
Offline

Joined: 07 Apr 2008, 11:50
Posts: 4222
A Darter wrote:
M23 have a few heavy weapons (AA guns and tanks)

The intervention force is 850 troops each from SA, Tanzania and Malawi.


I've seen sources that report M23 has up to 10 000 troops!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2013, 12:59 
Offline

Joined: 03 Mar 2008, 08:21
Posts: 1581
A Darter wrote:
M23 have a few heavy weapons (AA guns and tanks)

The intervention force is 850 troops each from SA, Tanzania and Malawi.


You for got about M23s MRLS(assumed 107mm).

The intervestion force is 3 infantry battlions, a arty company(my money is on 120mm morta) a reccon company(?) And a SF company.

M23 has a few thusand solders and a few heavy wepaons. Tanks are most likely T55 or chinnes version(captured from the last fall of goma) but there numbers are small.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 13 May 2013, 19:31 
Offline

Joined: 01 Jun 2011, 17:44
Posts: 150
Location: Bloemfontein
Interesting article in The Times today.

''A 1000-strong South African contingent is expected to be deployed to the region within a month as part of an African intervention force. It will almost certainly be drawn into conflict with the heavily armed and battle-hardened M23 rebel group after the collapse of peace talks between the rebels and the central government in Kinshasa.

One of 33 rebel groups in the region, the M23 has 40t of munitions looted from DRC army armouries in clashes in the east of the country last year.

The M23 routed DRC government forces in November in a fight for the capital of the country's eastern region, Goma, where South African peacekeepers were deployed. In the battle for Goma, South African soldiers were caught by surprise and the M23 forces - whose officers have over 20 years of jungle combat experience - were able to take the town within days.

Reported to have access to T55 and T72 Soviet-era tanks, and armed with anti-tank and surface-to-air missiles, anti-aircraft guns, heavy machine guns, armoured vehicles and rocket-propelled grenades, the M23's 5500-strong force is in the final stages of preparing for war.

The rebels have upped their propaganda war against the South Africans since warning President Jacob Zuma last month of a "catastrophic and apocalyptic" response if the SANDF engaged them.

The group has since revealed that it plans to kidnap SANDF troops to force South Africa to about-turn on the deployment.

The rebels are said to be backed by Rwandan and Ugandan military advisers and special forces, a claim both countries deny.

In March, the UN Security Council authorised the deployment of a 3000-man intervention force to the DRC to work alongside 17000 UN peacekeepers. The intervention force, which will comprise South African, Malawian and Tanzanian troops, is expected to arrive in the DRC within a month.

As opposed to the peacekeeping force, the new intervention force's mandate will see troops being able to engage rebel forces regardless of provocation in order to bring stability to the region.

Two months ago 13 South African paratroops were killed in the battle for the Central African Republic's capital, Bangui.

South Africa's most serious military disadvantages in that battle were lack of air support and poor intelligence - the same situation now faced by the troops destined for the DRC.

The SANDF has limited heavy-lift air transport capability, its Rooivalk attack helicopters' Makopa anti-tank missiles are not yet certified, and it is most unlikely that the air force's Gripen fighter jets will be deployed to the DRC. Knowing all this, South African soldiers are gravely concerned about the impending battle.

An army officer, who has knowledge of the mission's planning, said: "We train and fight hard. We know our job and are capable, but with little air support, this fight is difficult. We learned good lessons in CAR but, make no mistake, this will not be easy.

"The M23 are well-armed and have good intelligence. They will not fight conventionally. It will be guerrilla-style attacks preying on our weaknesses, and our lack of cohesion and joint training with the other forces."

SANDF spokesman Brigadier-General Xolani Mabanga declined to comment other than to say: "We are awaiting the UN's force deployment orders."

Defence analyst Helmoed Heitman said: "The M23 are not a bunch of ragtag rebels. They are superior in their jungle-fighting capabilities with backing from neighbouring countries [that are] running proxy military forces in the region.

''Our biggest problem is lack of air capabilities. We have the Rooivalk attack helicopter and Oryx troop-carrying helicopters, but we have no proper heavy-lift transport aircraft to get our equipment and troops in and out safely.

"The Rooivalk's anti-tank missile is not certified, meaning it will have to get dangerously close to the enemy for its rockets to be effective.

"We are taking our long-range G5 cannon and various armoured vehicles but these vehicles will not withstand the M23's fire-power. Their 37mm anti-aircraft guns are lethal both to air and ground targets and they have the support of tanks and special forces."

Heitman said major hindrances included the lack of intelligence. "Our defence intelligence is what got us into trouble in CAR.

"Added to this is the UN's view that this is just another peacekeeping mission. Instead of additional forces, they divided the current peacekeeping force, transferring the South African brigade to the intervention force and creating a vacuum for the rebels to capitalise on. This is not peacekeeping. It will be aggressive counter-guerrilla warfare in which people, including civilians, will die. You need numbers that are not there to bring about peace."

Heitman said the M23 rebels knew the SANDF's capabilities.

"They will not pick on us. They will pick on the possible weak links - Malawi and Tanzania - who have little battle experience. They will harass, divide and conquer." He added: "They have the strong possibility of tank and special forces support."

Maria Langer, DRC country manager for International Alert - a UK "peace-building" NGO - described the security situation as critical.

"The M23 have regrouped into key areas and are recruiting civilians for the war. They are 5km from Goma and are poised to take the town.

"Not only are the M23 around, but so are 30 other rebel groups."

Langer said: "The intervention force was designed to be a persuasive and preventative force but the DRC government sees it as a military solution."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 17 May 2013, 20:09 
Offline

Joined: 01 Jun 2011, 17:44
Posts: 150
Location: Bloemfontein
Today Die Volksblad had a article"Taai opleiding wag" aboutnext months deployment to the DRC.
Forgive google translate :lol:

PRETORIA. From the Army's premier infantry now undergo intense training to prepare them for their mission as part of the aggressive multinational ingrypingsbrigade in Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC).

According to Lieutenant General. Vusi Masondo, head of the army, helping commanders earlier this year in the Central African Republic (CAR) was involved in the Battle of Bangui, to hone their.

Inspectors from the United Nations (UN), in view of the unique features of the brigade already established in South Africa to prepare for the South Africans evaluate.

They will now undergo further training to fill any possible gaps in their training, said Masondo.

The soldiers are expected to be deployed to the DRC in June, where they are part of the brigade of about 3000 soldiers.

Tanzania will be the leading country and contribute more than 1000 soldiers, while Malawi will contribute a battalion.

The Tanzanian team has been deployed in Goma in the east of the DRC to make right for the rest of the force.

The UN Security Council approved the establishment of the brigade earlier approved an aggressive mandate an end to the M23 and other rebel groups' reign of terror in the country.

The brigade is expected to end June or early July with its operations.

South African soldiers will mainly infantrymen of 6 SA Infantry Battalion (6 SAI) in Grahamstown. They will be supplemented by paratroopers and special forces. There is still out on whether South Africa two of its Rooivalk attack helicopters and two Oryx helicopters deployed in support of the force, said Masondo.

South Africa has already a magsterkte of about 1000 soldiers who were part of the UN Mission in the DRC (Monusco). The soldiers are now under transferred ingrypingsbrigade.

At the same time, the soldiers in the past six months in the DRC, now rotated back home to make way for the new group.

6 SAI is the army's luggeleide Battalion, which means they are accustomed to helicopters to be deployed to an area of ​​conflict.

According to Masondo, the army's obsolete and battered equipment problem, but he is confident that the ingrypingsgroep will be adequately equipped to meet the requirements.

He expressed the hope that the Treasury may have excess money somewhere outside the defense budget will find that the army will assist with the procurement of new equipment.

"Lack of equipment that our soldiers can train optimally," he said at a briefing in Pretoria on Tuesday.

Lieutenant General. Derrick Mgwebi, chief of joint operations, is now at the UN in New York to get all the necessary documents and rules of warfare to sign for the new brigade.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 18 May 2013, 11:25 
Offline

Joined: 07 Apr 2008, 11:50
Posts: 4222
We'll forgive the translation only if you give us a link to the original article...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 18 May 2013, 11:32 
Offline

Joined: 12 Jun 2011, 14:21
Posts: 2338
Roger the Dodger wrote:
We'll forgive the translation only if you give us a link to the original article...

+ 1.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 18 May 2013, 15:26 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 23 Jul 2004, 15:11
Posts: 910
Location: Centurion, RSA
I thought the DANDF already had the men up at Entebe airport????
Or was this only equipment?
I'm sure that all the reports just after the CAR indecent clearly stated that a lot of men and equipment was flown to Entebe. Were these men then withdrawn? IIRC the UN sanctioned intervention brigade was approved in the week following the CAR battle, so I thought that the equipment and men would stay on in Entebe to serve as the SA component of this force. #-o
If this is not so, these men were then withdrawn from Entebe (At great cost) only to be flown back up to where ever they will be posted.
Another question is: What will be the role of the plus/minus 800-1000 men (or aren't this even more) that have been in the DRC for a number of years? will they form part of the intervention brigade or will only the "new" soldiers form our (SA's) part of the new brigade?
I'm also unclear on the role/level of "rules of engagement" of the "new" brigade versus the forces already in the DRC. Will they be different? Like, only the "new" forces will have the "right" to go on "offensive" strikes against the rebels???? :?:
Lots of unknowns in this whole thing.... :roll:

_________________
Da-di-da-da-da


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 18 May 2013, 15:27 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 23 Jul 2004, 15:11
Posts: 910
Location: Centurion, RSA
Sorry :oops:
Should have been "SANDF" in that first sentence.

_________________
Da-di-da-da-da


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 18 May 2013, 17:11 
Offline

Joined: 07 Apr 2008, 11:50
Posts: 4222
-2 brownie points for Koos because I had to search for the original article [-X
http://www.volksblad.com/nuus/2013-05-1 ... eiding-wag


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 18 May 2013, 21:48 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2004, 21:13
Posts: 1131
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
The sudden deployments after the CAR battle were about CAR, not the DRC. My speculation is that the senior leadership expected SA to be called in to oust Séléka from power, especially as the AU has a policy against recognising governments-by-coup, but ECCAS went against SA's expectations and opted to recognise the new government (subject to conditions) instead.

The Intervention Brigade deployment is being planned to coincide with the regular scheduled rotation of South African forces with MONUSCO in the Eastern DRC, as the SA Army cannot commit another battalion. So Lt. Gen. Masondo confirmed that SA reached an agreement with the UN to redeploy its DRC forces to the Intervention Brigade, meaning that there won't be an overall increase in the number of deployed troops.

So to clarify, the troops currently in the DRC, mostly from 121 Battalion, will be returning to SA in June. 6 SAI will be rotating in to replace them, but rather than taking over 121 Battalion's tasks they'll go directly into the Intervention Brigade.

The Rules of Engagement are defined in UNSC Resolution 2098. In brief, the mandate is one of the strongest I've ever seen, authorising the Brigade to undertake independent offensive operations against rebel groups to disarm them. Read the entire thing to get a sense of what's happening but yes, it means they can go on offensive strikes against rebels.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 19 May 2013, 00:23 
Offline

Joined: 07 Apr 2008, 11:50
Posts: 4222
Unfortunately it is far too small a force to go on the offensive.
Isn't the "classic" rule of thumb that the invader (Intervention Brigade) needs to outnumber the embedded defender (M23) by about 3 to 1 for the attack to have a decent chance of success?
I see in the Volkblad article they are talking of deploying maybe two Oryx and two Rooivalk. Do they think M23 are a bunch of kids armed with only sticks and stones?
Hier kom groot K@K!!! This is going to make Bangui look like a little game.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 374 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 25  Next

All times are UTC + 2 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group