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 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 12:31 
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koffiepit wrote:
boertjie wrote:
Cliff
In the article itself they had it right at least.... :)
Another viewpoint:
I wonder if the build-up of troops was not for the DRC to begin with, rather than for the CAR. May-be the CAR became a "handy" decoy when it blew-up in RSA'a faces.
Do you guys think, or maybe have some proof, that the equipment will be used in the DRC? Including the Rooivalk and Gripens.
Do anybody knows about the size of the force that was send to Uganda and if this force will be deployed to the DRC?
I think this whole thing has been deliberately made as confusing as possible in order to disguise the true reason for tactical purposes. The President still did not inform parliament about this latest troop deployment yet, has he?


No, I think the confusion in the public domain is as a result of:
- Confusion and criminally poor planning and bypassing the oversight processes of the democracy at top level, (the minister of defense gave a pathetic display of absolute cluelessness in her presentation to the military oversight committee last week.)
- A knee-jerk fire fighting approach to the CAR debacle after the house has completely burned down,
- The fact that the Francophone African nations basically told Zuma two words (F Off) with the result that he had to bring back the "firefighters" in a hurry,
- Since South Africa is not welcome in the CAR and other Francophone African countries any more, South Africa's quick changing of priorities to increase its involvement in the DRC in conjunction with the new UN resolution to escalate its involvement in the DRC from peacekeeping to peace enforcement ,
- A deliberate blackout of information to parliament and the public (as if we are a dictatorship instead of a democracy where the executive authorities are accountable to parliament for their actions, especially any external military adventures.)





SA was one of the countries that pushed for the intervestion brigade. So it is posibil that all the build up and the events in CAR are not related.


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 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 14:28 
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koffiepit wrote:
boertjie wrote:
Cliff
In the article itself they had it right at least.... :)
Another viewpoint:
I wonder if the build-up of troops was not for the DRC to begin with, rather than for the CAR. May-be the CAR became a "handy" decoy when it blew-up in RSA'a faces.
Do you guys think, or maybe have some proof, that the equipment will be used in the DRC? Including the Rooivalk and Gripens.
Do anybody knows about the size of the force that was send to Uganda and if this force will be deployed to the DRC?
I think this whole thing has been deliberately made as confusing as possible in order to disguise the true reason for tactical purposes. The President still did not inform parliament about this latest troop deployment yet, has he?


No, I think the confusion in the public domain is as a result of:
- Confusion and criminally poor planning and bypassing the oversight processes of the democracy at top level, (the minister of defense gave a pathetic display of absolute cluelessness in her presentation to the military oversight committee last week.)
- A knee-jerk fire fighting approach to the CAR debacle after the house has completely burned down,
- The fact that the Francophone African nations basically told Zuma two words (F Off) with the result that he had to bring back the "firefighters" in a hurry,
- Since South Africa is not welcome in the CAR and other Francophone African countries any more, South Africa's quick changing of priorities to increase its involvement in the DRC in conjunction with the new UN resolution to escalate its involvement in the DRC from peacekeeping to peace enforcement ,
- A deliberate blackout of information to parliament and the public (as if we are a dictatorship instead of a democracy where the executive authorities are accountable to parliament for their actions, especially any external military adventures.)


Excellent summation Koffie! :smt023 :smt023 :smt023
I'd add one more point:

- Zero competence and very little interest in defence matters by the general press in SA.

It's only when soldiers mutiny or get killed in accidents or action that most of the media even notice that the SANDF exists! At the time of the budget the only news source I saw that even said a single word about the too low defence budget was DefenceWeb, the rest didn't even notice.

Outside of Defenceweb you can probably count the journalists who can tell the difference between a Casspir and a Olifant, or a frigate and a battleship, on one hand! The only one I'm aware of is the lady who writes for Beeld/Media24.


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 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 16:52 
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Roger the Dodger wrote:

Excellent summation Koffie! :smt023 :smt023 :smt023
I'd add one more point:

- Zero competence and very little interest in defence matters by the general press in SA.

It's only when soldiers mutiny or get killed in accidents or action that most of the media even notice that the SANDF exists! At the time of the budget the only news source I saw that even said a single word about the too low defence budget was DefenceWeb, the rest didn't even notice.

Outside of Defenceweb you can probably count the journalists who can tell the difference between a Casspir and a Olifant, or a frigate and a battleship, on one hand! The only one I'm aware of is the lady who writes for Beeld/Media24.

I second that, good summary. In my experience the number of journalists/writers who write competently on defence issues is tiny. Here's a short list, in no particular order:

Dean Wingrin, Kim Helfrich and Guy Martin of DefenceWeb (counting Dean under the DW banner here, which he does in addition to this site)
Helmoed Römer-Heitman, though he's technically an analyst some of his stuff counts as journalism
Erika Gibson of Beeld/Media24
Graeme Hosken of The Times
Keith Campbell of Engineering News (excellent technical knowledge!)
John Stupart of African Armed Forces Journal
James Styan, I think of Media24

Any other good ones that I've missed?


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 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 17:45 
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Heitman writes for Jane's but he is quoted as an expert commentator by others.

So if we filter out the specialist publications in that list, we are left with only three general news media journalists specialising in defence reporting.


Last edited by Roger the Dodger on 09 Apr 2013, 17:51, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 17:48 
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Roger the Dodger wrote:
Heitman writes for Jane's :smt023 :smt023 :smt023


And our defense review, witch may finally get passed.


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 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 17:52 
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Who remembers and misses Jaques Pauw who used to report for SABC TV News?


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 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 17:55 
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Roger the Dodger wrote:
Heitman writes for Jane's but he is quoted as an expert commentator by others.

So if we filter out the specialist publications in that list, we are left with only three general news media journalists specialising in defence reporting.


Oh right, can't believe I forgot about his Jane's work.

Pretty bad state of affairs, isn't it? That lack of general news media journalists versed in defence has been made blatantly clear in the reporting on the CAR situation, most of which has been appalling.

For one I was flabbergasted how quickly so many of the papers turned from 'our troops got slaughtered!' to rah-rah jingoism after that first SANDF press briefing. It was left to people like Erika Gibson and Graeme Hosken to get real info out and provide factual balance.


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 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 18:29 
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Back in the "old days" most white male journo's had done their two years - so at least they didn't know absolutely zero.


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 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 18:36 
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http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/ ... different/

http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defencewe ... _id-30075/


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 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 18:46 
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Roger the Dodger wrote:
Back in the "old days" most white male journo's had done their two years - so at least they didn't know absolutely zero.

True in some cases, but so many conscripts were limited to such small horizons during their tour that while the experience might've given them empathy for serving soldiers it doesn't help in their understanding of military issues. Look at most SA forums and see how badly wrong many former SADF conscripts get their analyses of present military situations. Also, Maynier. :wink:

It's hard to say where the problem is, but I think a big deal is that with only a few notable exceptions our academic institutions are neither equipped nor willing to properly understand and study defence policy. Strategic Studies is an afterthought of most SA International Relations departments and is sometimes destroyed by being forced to adopt a pacific, anti-military approach by the surrounding Humanities departments who hold the purse strings.

Even if you do manage to get into a great course with knowledgeable lecturers, your options after graduating are limited. We have very few think tanks that have any focus on defence policy and military analysis, unlike the US and UK, while none of the media houses are interested in hiring military analysts. So many students who might've done well stay away from majoring in Strat Studies because in SA it's often a career dead-end.

So not an easy problem to fix.


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 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 18:54 
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The "leftist pacifists" who teach journalism at most of our universities would probably deliberately fail a student who lets slip that they have ever even been in the same room as an "evil" weapon.


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 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 18:59 
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Roger the Dodger wrote:
The "leftist pacifists" who teach journalism at most of our universities would probably deliberately fail a student who lets slip that they have ever even been in the same room as an "evil" weapon.


Or if they pointed out that, "that tank" in a picture was actually a APC.


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 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2013, 17:17 
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http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defencewe ... _id-30101/


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 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 18:21 
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sob wrote:
Roger the Dodger wrote:
The "leftist pacifists" who teach journalism at most of our universities would probably deliberately fail a student who lets slip that they have ever even been in the same room as an "evil" weapon.


Or if they pointed out that, "that tank" in a picture was actually a APC.


Or a battleship?


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 Post subject: Re: are we at war(DRC)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 18:27 
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m4rek wrote:
sob wrote:
Roger the Dodger wrote:
The "leftist pacifists" who teach journalism at most of our universities would probably deliberately fail a student who lets slip that they have ever even been in the same room as an "evil" weapon.


Or if they pointed out that, "that tank" in a picture was actually a APC.


Or a battleship?



They would not know a battelship if it broad sidded them.


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