The SAAF Forum

Well, This is really interesting....


I have NEVER heard of anything remotely like this anywhere......

I guess my ignorance will show here...but I thought SA was having massive financial issues?....I mean the SANDF can;t buy anything new because of budget cuts...the airlines are collapsing and the rand is worth like not much.......

WHY would anyone realistically believe that the Government would give money to EX servicemen, when the are restricted on NEW servicemen/women due to paying them etc.

It seems an awfull scam to me...an I;m really sorry to see Men and women that served getting taken in.....seems more like a collecting of where "everyone" is for future rounding up maybe?.......

as I said.....I am ignorant of alot of things SA.......I hope the best for you all......

smokeandfire911, as I said to you in past PM's, you won't understand unless you live there for a number of years and focus on how things work, the mind set.

What I'm seeing is, they want to keep their former freedom fighters on the list that were not proper soldiers, and get rid of those bastards that protected the country from them. They have to conatain the ones they trained to be destructive.

Look at the size of the civil service and who they are in relation to the country.
Look at the percentage of the population living on government support. That is a lot of money.
It is all hand outs to the so called disadvantaged, it is a nation that expects the ANC to deliver as they had promised.

There is a lot of money in SA to be made, if you get your foot in the right place and with out corruption.
Airlines collapsing, that is SAA that is heavily overstaffed like the civil service and miss managed, seems to me the private airlines are coping, fighting against an airline that keeps getting bail outs.

Dit maak my bos be**k.

Edit I'm responding in the way I think I understand what you are saying, where as you may mean something different. We are brought up in very different societies that influenced our way of thinking.

I am sorry for those nastional serves man who just lost out, but they should never have gotten the money. The amout of people that where getting was not cose to the amout of NS members. So either all NS members should get money or knowen.

Where NS members promised a pension after there 2 years, I know MSDs get nothing of the sort. Only permant force members get a penstion.


Some time there is no big conspiracy, a computor ero caused people who where not intilted to money to get money. I mean just how many NS members where there, to pay them all would be imposbil.

How many former SADF national serviceman do you think past through the ranks over the years? I read somewhere it was over 600 000 conscripts. That is a hellava lot and the government cannot afford that. As for the ex MK/Apla crowd I think there is a genuine interest yo help them out but also trying to contain the monster. Kind of like feeding the crocodile enough and keeping him full enough hoping he won't bite you...

Yes, Thanks Jeffery,

I had kinda forgotten to not look at things though "Canadian Eyes" so to speak....

Yet, that said...it simply makes NO SENSE in any way shape or form.....

WHY would a "democratic" Government that hasn;t done well with financial issues be looking to spend money on past "freedom fighters" .. (see terrorists).....that action alone is racist, divisonal and a waste of financial resources is it not?...

Just about the most idiotic thing I have ever seen......I really hope that if there isn;t a fair dispersion of funds to ALL ex servicemen that there aren;t alot of those ex servicemen running to line up and put their names on lists, where they live and what they did in service type stuff.......in the "wrong hands" that could lead to really bad things.....

Like I said, I am an outsider......but this one has got me absolutely stumped ...and more than a little concerned what the "real" underlaying reasons/ issues are......

But thanks for the reminder Jeff and I;ll try really hard to "understand".......

Not just the rebels get money, if you a permanent force member of SADF, even a unit like 32 Battlion you qualifier for the money, the people who where removed where conscripts who got on the list by mistake since it as not even close to the number of conscripts SADF had through the years

There is vetting done, effectiveness is a different story. By the Way SA is not poor we just handle our wealth poorly, that how one school district runs out of funds and another has cash to spare.

I do not see the problem with this, the government should try every possibility thing to support her veterans, i would hate for another Job Maseko, a SA war hero a black solder who won the MC during WW2 for sinking a fully laden German cargo ship well a POW in Tobruk. His family had to borrow money to pay for his funeral. In my opinion that is a Fing disgrace.


this is a project i am glad is around. http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?o ... Itemid=242

I just don't see how an MK "soldier" (term loosely used) can be called a veteran. To me it's an insult to REAL veterans around the world.

The country cannot afford this by any stretch of the imagination.

They have to afford it, they need their vote.

As for MK, remember this page, http://www.saairforce.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4714&start=165
The British embassy put up a wreath for us at the South African Cemetery In Castiglione, Italy, not our embassy.
MK hijacking WWI Delville Wood memorial in France for their struggle.

Taking notes S&F911?

They lost control of crocodile Julius. Will be interesting and scary how he and EFF do in the elections.
Nor do they seem to know how to contain the damage being done to the goose that lays the golden egg by their striking union comrades. I wonder if they now wish they did not teach them how to set tyres alight. petrol bombs etc. It's biting back at them.

Yes sir...Notes are well underway......Thanks for the link back to that other thread...it sure opened my eyes some......

just as a side note..My Great Uncle served in England, North Africa, Sicily, Italy, France, Belgium, Holland and into Germany during WW2...he volunteered for service in 1939 and survived all 6 years of fighting....he didn;t speak much of his experiences but I very clearly remember him saying that he had tons of respect for the SA troops and enjoyed their company....so from a Canadian EX Serviceman, and from my Great Uncle, a Canadian WW2 Vet...our respect and appreciation to all the TRUE SA Vets and Servicemen......

and Thanks Jeff..........

This is just ridiculous! Show me any military anywhere in the world that has ever paid pensions to conscripts! And to allege some grand conspiracy! Will somebody please present some proof that a Permanent Force member of the SADF who registered, was turned away?

As for you smokeandfire911, you might want to bear it in mind that pre-94 SA was a fascist police state and I'd be very careful who I label as a terrorist! South of our border, Washington was labelled a terrorist by the British; good luck regurgitating that nonsense on an American forum.

As a black Quebecois who was involved in the very small anti-apartheid movement in Canada, and now lives in SA, I'm astounded at your ready acceptance of one side of the narrative. Shame on you!

Dean: I apologise for the political rant.

How so, they may have been crappy solders but they where solders in MK.

We have been affording it, SA is not poor, we rather well of.

I can take a good swipe at that.

I have seen the RCMP treating civilians worse than the old SAP treating blacks, coloureds in pre 94, when they are breaking the law, like speeding or pissing in public. It was new to me when I saw time and again Canadian police stop someone and approach a car with hand on holstered gun. The RCMP behave as if you must fear them, which took me by surprise. Not my experience with the SAP, SAPS, Polizei, or the Bobbies. Or any other western European police.

I'm sure you are aware of the Polish visitor and the Vancouver airport incident?
He was of no threat to any one, just highly frustrated after 10 hours or so of flying, and waiting in the wrong area, (customs area) for 10 hours with no food or drink, desperate for a smoke, not able to communicate with any one, waiting for his mother. Sweating and breathing heavily, in come the mighty 4 RCMP officers, teaser him for no reason, (against procedure) and soon he is dead.
The medics asked them to take the cuffs of him as he was not responding (he was already dead), they said no as he is a danger.
They take the guy's cell phone who recorded the event, a big shot at the detachment months down the line denied video footage existed (turned out he watched it the previous day), eventually a court orders the RCMP to return his cell phone, that is when the public saw what really happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_0-kjTybfQ&list=PL7B2F376A6FEED9EF

So Mr Racine, lets compare apples with apples. Ok
I have been told by retired police here, it is them vs the civilians.
Every force has good and bad, the culture and enforcement in the force sets the standards, here they do their utmost to protect their own when something goes wrong, (including murder in a jail cell), it their code of conduct to protect each other. It was amazing to watch the court case of Mr Dziekanski what the officers tried to say, like he tried to attack them.
How many times have I heard of issues when it comes to abuse, sexual abuse of female police officers, which is way out of wack to what Canada stands for in our public.
To serve and protect, what does that mean to them?????

In SA the SAP set an example to the public for behaviour, here they are above the law, they exceed the speed limit as they wish (not in an emergency), park where it is prohibited like a wheel chair parking spot (not in an emergency).
And what does the modern SAPS do??? I have seen things, in line with some blacks complaining they are worse than the old SAP??? Arresting a taxi driver, towing him behind the vehicle to the police station, to his death is one example.

Fascist police state, Canada is closer to that than the SAP, but is far from it.
Calling the SAP that comes from our friends in government who were propelled by Moscow at the time.
They also called West Germany a fascist state, and many East Germans believed that, saying West Germany wants to repress them.

So MK, that is not trained as a professional soldier, that is trained to strike soft targets which is cowardice, killing his own people that he is apparently who is fighting for, is more of a soldier than a professionally trained conscript that is trained to fight an enemy force and not hit target civilians.
Are you saying MK should be above a conscript, on par with a permanent force member. I consider an MK and the rest that joined the SANDF as a permanent force is permanent force.
I have met permanent force member that were forced out to make space, they will not get a pension and are disgusted as to what has been done to them and other members, careers cut short for the new order.

[quote="Jean Racine"]As a black Quebecois who was involved in the very small anti-apartheid movement in Canada, and now lives in SA, I'm astounded at your ready acceptance of one side of the narrative. Shame on you!quote]
Shame on who???
That is like I say shame on you?
Who are you to shame someone with a different point of view?
I have met a few leftists, only their way is the right way and every one else is wrong.

Good for you being part of an anti apartheid movement.
Let me declare I don't support apartheid.
Did you ever worry about what happens in Canada to you know who. What about Australia?
Two nations the did not put it into writing and make it law. Where did this come from?
Easy to go after SA, they put it into law. A country where law was upheld by a semi democratict nation (white man can vote in a government), where peoples rights were upheld by the law, yes blacks had rights (except a hand full who had vital information on national destruction).

Did you ever worry about countries where people had no rights, unlike SA?
Just look north of SA, try pulling those stunts that were well publicised in the media, in those countries.
Or how about in Asia? Upper cast and lower cast.
Chinese refugees accepted into Canada, who don't understand that we can pack up and move somewhere else in the country without getting government approval?

At least the old SA made a big effort to send ever black child to school, an uphill task. Who was behind the burning down of black schools? The made an effort to supply toilets and water to squatter camps with some area lighting. How many squatter camps in other countries have that kind of luxury?
And what about that apartheid program of providing those in squatter camps with jobs, cheap housing to get them out of that shit life style. 99 year mortgage interest free. I could not get that, yet I pay my taxes, which in turn pays the interest on that mortgage. I'm being discriminated against by the apartheid government, because I'm white!!!

Just be fare, judge things by the same standard and not target one group and turn a blind eye to a nother.