The SAAF Forum

Sorry for responding so long after this post, but I was looking out for a good quality picture to show this flap properly, and with the newest version of the MiG-35 displayed at MAKS, I think I have found the best picture to show this area to date (see below). The MiG-35 is indeed the "ultimate" refinement of the MiG-29 series and looks like an interesting option for countries who cannot afford to operate the larger Sukhoi family of aircraft. In the context of this thread - I remember some time ago a discussion on this site about the Egyptians choosing Rafale over MiG-35. Things have obviously changed quite a lot since then. The current orders for Egypt are, apparently:
Rafale: 24 (8 single seat, 16 two-seat - which is a very interesting mix, btw.) at €5.2 billion or US $5.6 billion
Mig-35: 46 aircraft at (claimed) $2 billion

The price comparison is, to say the least, interesting... Of course, the two aircraft are not really directly comparable in capability, except that both are twin-engined fighters equipped with AESA radars.

accordind to CEO of Rosoboronexport , Egyptians get the Mig 29 M2 , the Mi 35 will be not ready for export until 18 to 24 months

I also read that. As I understand, the main difference between the MiG-29M2 as offered to Egypt, and the final MiG-35 configuration is that the 29M2 uses the Zhuk-ME Pulse-Doppler radar, also used in the MiG-29SMT, rather than the Zhuk-AE AESA radar. Other than that, it appears to be very close to the MiG-35 configuration. I wonder how difficult it would be to upgrade the radar at a later stage? Although, the Zhuk-ME appears to be a pretty impressive radar in itself.

nice shots and nice to see how Fulcrums changed in appearance. Would be interesting to know if the KA-52s are to be deployed to Sinai.

@Mfezi - will the new Migs still require engine maintenance at short intervals, which Russia will only do themselves?

Or has the engines' maintenance turn around times improved? And will Russia give countries license to do the maintenance themselves?

I understand this was always the main argument for NOT buying Russian fighters.

Ryno

Obviously, I haven't seen the Egyptian contract and can only guess at the maintenance agreements. But on the engines in general - the Russians have done a huge amount of work on improving quality and increasing both time between overhauls and total service life of their engines over the last 20 years or so. A lot of that was pushed by the Indians, who operate a mix of Western and Russian types and wanted to get their Russian aircraft closer to the maintenance requirements of the Western types. Of course, the Russians also realized that if they want to compete on the world market, they would have to sort out these issues. By the way, even our work with them on the SMR-95 pushed them to increase service life and improve efficiency and, in the case of the RD-33 specifically, reduce the characteristic smoking of the earlier engines when selecting full power.

So, to give you some idea: I have heard from some people that the original RD-33, as developed in the 70's, would have to be factory overhauled every 300 hours or thereabouts. This is probably what you are referring to? On the new RD-33MK, which I believe also now powers the Egyptian aircraft, the total service life has been increased to 4000+ hours and the time between overhauls is, according to various sources that I have read, in the region of 1000 hours. Unfortunately, I have no idea what level of servicing or overhauls can be done outside Russia, but I presume a factory overhaul every 1000 hours of service would be much more palatable for most clients than every 300 hours.

As for the AL-31 family of engines powering the Sukhoi aircraft - I don't know exactly what the original TBO and service lives were on the early Su-27 models, but they were better than for the RD-33. I have seen in some books that the factory spec said 500 hours TBO with a 1500 hours service life on the original models - so better than the RD-33 but still not at Western standards. The slightly newer ones used by the Indian Air Force on the Su-30MKI have a mean time between overhaul of 1000 hours and a service life of supposedly 3000 hours. Saturn claims that for the AL-41F1S used in the modern Russian Air Force Su-35S and Chinese Air Force Su-35, you can go 1500 hours before the first overhaul and then it is 1000 hours MTBO with a 4000 hours total life. Keep in mind, 4000 hours is probably also roughly the service life of the actual airframes into which they go.

Anyway, these modern numbers are in line (or, in some cases exceed) modern Western Engines. What I don't know, and to answer that you would have to ask an operator of the latest types, whether these engines actually achieve the design MTBO in operational service. I simply don't know the answer to that question, but on paper at least service and overhaul intervals should not really be as important a factor in aircraft selection when choosing between Western and Russian types, as it may have been in the 80's or 90's, when their whole philosophy was so different from our modern Western one.

Solid infos there Mfezi.

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A plan is simply a basis for change.

Before Camp David, where there plans to purchase MIG-25s?

Kind of interesting to see russian arms have a revival in the egyptian Air Force, having gone for the Rafale too, it seems the US role decreased there.
I wondered if there were elements in the egyptian military, possibly from the very old days who wanted to open up the military for russian arms again. But it seems to me like politics played a big role here.

As those who follow the news may know, the Egyptian purchase of Su-35SE aircraft from Russia is quite secretive and it is difficult to find clear information on the contract. It appears they ordered somewhere between 24 and 30 aircraft. For Russia this is quite significant, since Egypt is only the second export customer for the Su-35 (after China). The deal has also been controversial, since the US at one point threatened to sanction Egypt if they didn't cancel the deal - a threat that Egypt either ignored or they came to some sort of settlement (perhaps made good by a rather large contract with the US to have their AH-64E Apaches upgraded). Egypt has a rather amazing variety of aircraft now in service. On the fighter side it includes Mirage 2000, F-16, Rafale, Mig-29M/M2, Su-35 and there are still talks about MiG-35, M-346 and Eurofighter Typhoons.

It is not clear what the difference between the Russian Su-35S and Egyptian Su-35SE are. There are almost certainly differences in avionics, EW, radar, etc. since Russia almost never exports equipment with the same spec as the versions for domestic use. Anyway, some great pictures of several of the Su-35SE aircraft rumored to be intended for Egypt has appeared on the internet. According to Russian spotters, five aircraft are on their way for delivery, namely bort numbers 9210, 9211, 9212, 9213 and 9214. Below is a picture of 9210, followed by direct links to the rest to save some space - the pictures are quite large. Obviously not taken by myself, but by the photographers credited on each photograph:



Links to pictures of other four aircraft:
9211
9212
9213
9214

Thanks for the info and links.

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How come every time my ship comes in, I'm at the airport?

Interesting Mfezi, what would be the reason for Egypt fielding this diverse range fighter aircraft, understandable that each has its own capability and role. Will we in the near future see them lining up for the Chinese stealth fighters (don't expect anyone to sell their stealth)?

Best.

Must be costing a fortune to keep a diverse fleet like that going. No commonality, no economies of scale, different training and maintenance/logistics requirements. Maybe they suffer from the archaic view that more is better....makes no sense

Well, if Egypt does something that the one supplier does not like, weapon system from the other country will not be impacted by any potential embargo.

But yes, logistics must be a nightmare.

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How come every time my ship comes in, I'm at the airport?