The SAAF Forum

Very interesting build of a great kit! The old Esci is really starting to show it's age, and your pics of this build are really making me want to get one of these.
Some observations - you are correct that the Snakeyes are not correct for this aircraft - the FAA used non-drag MK.80 series bombs which were the reason they had so many misses in San Carlos water against the Royal Navy. The FAA pre-war had emphasized bombing of ground targets in a hypothetical conflict with Chile. Only the Naval Aviation 3rd Fighter and Attack Escuadrilla with A-4Q Skyhawks had trained for low level anti-ship missions with the Snakeyes, which they proved very effective at.

You are also correct that the 1300L tanks only were used. The French tanks with bomb racks is great to see in a kit but only the FAA Mirage III's used them. The daggers typically mounted two MK.82 bombs on the centerline pylon and I do think they ever mounted the rear fuselage pylons, if indeed the Israelis ever provided them.

If you can source them, the tanks from the Fujimi Mirage IIIR should work.

There is a little known configuration for FAA Daggers in 1982 that you may find interesting - in June they flew a few escort missions carrying 1300L tanks and Shafrirs on outboard pylons that only second batch Daggers had been delivered with. I find most 48 Sidewinder are not to difficult to convert into first series Shafrirs. This Dagger configuration was a desperate late war attempt to counter the Sea Harrier/AIM-9L combination after the interceptor Mirage III's had been relegated to the mainland to counter a possible Vulcan raid.

Really looking forward to this build!

Here is the configuration I was referring to. Of note are the grey painted 1300 L tanks

Thanks for the information Pucara

I've not seen photos of Snakeyes on Daggers. I also thought the FAA used Expal bombs and not Mk.80 series ?

You are right, they did not carry Mk 80 series bombs, the Expals often look like them in grainy black and white photos.

Snakeyes were used only by the Naval Aviation A-4's, which were very effective - they were responsible for sinking HMS Ardent.
The Argentine Air Force primarily used British 1000 lb., Expal bombs. Specifically which munitions were used depended on the mission. The most common bomb appears to have been the British Mk.17 1000 pounder. I'll link to a very comprehensive Argentine article on FAA bombs during the war that includes some excellent photos.

https://aquellasarmasdeguerra.wordpress ... vinas/amp/

I have seen some Argentine photos of bombs on a Daggers rear fuselage pylons but remain convinced they were not used during the war due to the range penalty this incurred - Daggers with two 1000lb and Skyhawks with 1:were operating at extreme range with only minutes to spare over target it was a case of one pass and evasive maneuvers at full throttle to get back home. For the Daggers without IFR capacity, this made the range very critical.

BTW the armourers in the top.photo are writing " Greetings to the Little Prince" on the Expal bomb, which is a message for Prince Andrew! They appear to belong to the IV Fighter Brigade with the tail of one of that units A-4C's just visible in the background

Well I stand corrected - a photo in the linked article clearly shows that four 250kg Expal bombs (two on the angled rear fuselage pylons) were carried during the war. Those pylons could carry the British 1000 pounders but again, due to range, did not during the war, unless a photo shows otherwise!


And one more thing, some Argentine sources claim that at the end of the war on June 8, Daggers based at the Rio Grande base (Daggers were based at other locations as well) attacked HMS Plymouth with four Snakeyes each - the bombs came from naval stocks at the base which they shared with the Naval A-4's ( the Naval unit being non operational at this stage due to losses). Again, as with the Shafrirs this speaks to the fighting spirit of the Argentine pilots but also the desperation that took hold in June - if the snakeye story is true one has to wonder how effective the mission would have been with weapons the pilots had not trained on!

Once again, thanks for more info. I have quite a few photos of Daggers during the war with bombs on the rear fuselage pylons. Additions to this were a) three tanks or b) 2 more bombs centerline and two tanks. 4 bombs would have been 250kg Expal and not Mk.17 1,000lb

An update on the Daggers with Shafrirs AAM's - I found an old photo that shows one of these aircraft and they in fact flew with smaller tanks,

So, I've now completed three Mirage III derivatives using Kinetic's Mirage IIIE/Dagger kits :

https://flic.kr/p/2osqmuj

20230409_093306 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

So, I've now completed three Mirage III derivatives using Kinetic's Mirage IIIE/Dagger kits :

20200412_085123 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

20230409_093306 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

Using the IIIE kit, the first is a Spanish Mirage IIIEA in the standard NATO grey/green/silver colour scheme. It's equipped with the small practice rocket pods and standard RP18R 500 later supersonic fuel tanks :

IMG_6666 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

IMG_6665 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

IMG_6664 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

IMG_6640 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

IMG_6638 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

IMG_6623 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

IMG_6622 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

The decals provided in these kits are printed by Cartograph and go on exceptionally well with decal solvent (I use the Ammo two part system).

Using the same Kinetic Mirage IIIE kit, I did a conversion to a Mirage 50EV used by Venezuela. These were modified with an Atar 09K50 engine and a radar nose similar to that used on the Mirage F1. It also was equipped with an inflight refuelling probe and small fixed canard foreplanes. The nose and refuelling probe were scratch built. The intakes were modified to include the leading edge scallops as was characteristic of 09K50 engine Mirages. The canards were modified using parts from the kit. These, similar to those fitted to the Brazilian Mirage F-103, are much smaller than the 70% canards fitted to the Cheetah E and D - the kit only provides the 70% canards. I also added the distinct cable ducting along the forward fuselage. The decals were form FCM and went down well. This is for me the prettiest of all Mirage III/5/50 variants.

IMG_6668 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

IMG_6642 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

IMG_6659 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

IMG_6660 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

IMG_6641 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

IMG_6621 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

The Venezuelan 50s were painted in either standard USAF SEA colour scheme or a simplified two tone upper scheme consisting of medium green and tan - I chose the latter - paints used were :
a) Upper tan - Mr. Colour 310 FS30219
b) Upper green - Tamiya XF-58
c) Undersides - XtraColour X1239 light grey FS16495

IMG_6620 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

And the last of the latest trilogy is an IAI Dagger as used by the Argentinian Air Force during the Falklands War. Camouflage colours are standard USAF South East Asia tan, light green and dark green over light grey. I used the fantastic Mr. Colour lacquer paints which go on well and just look right. These Daggers carried 4 Expal 250lb bombs (two on the centreline and 2 on the rear fuselage pylons) on combat missions - I need to source some...

147A7025 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

147A7024 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

147A7023 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

147A7021 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

Colours are :
a) Tan - Mr. Colour 310 FS30218
b) Light green - Mr. Colour 303 FS34102
c) Dark green - Mr. Colour 309 FS34079
d) Light grey - Mr. Colour 311 FS36622

147A7018 - 800 by Malcolm Reid, on Flickr

Wow, all bult to your usual high standard and beautifully photographed.

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