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Slatted Sabre - in 1:48 Scale
http://www.saairforce.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9185		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Madmax [ 14 May 2017, 20:02 ]
Post subject:  Slatted Sabre - in 1:48 Scale
The Sabre is arguably the prettiest fighter ever built.

That wasn't the reason I chose to build this model however, it all went about the prettiest decal sheet ever made. I bought it many, many years ago, before buying a kit - probably just because I was so taken with the fact that someone (a Canadian) had finally made an accurate decal of the SAAF castle!

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And yes, it is a fine looking machine! (Not sure whom to credit for this photo, wish I did - Dave Becker used it in a magazine article without any credit so maybe part of his once vast collection)

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There is one snag however, no kit!

Yes, I know that Hasegawa did eventually box a sort of Canadair Mk 6, but it has no deployable slats and needs some surgery to get to the correct wing anyway. I didn't know about any of this until the internet and model aircraft really came together, and then anyone with a Sabre to grind knew all about it. There are many excellent studies about this very subject for you to discover on the web, and I'm sure many of you boffins on Sabre's are yawning as I type. It is a fascinating topic from an aircraft history point of view, and has added much to the fun of tackling this project.

So, after purchasing what I thought to be the correct Hasegawa Sabre (a Mk 5) :roll: , I started the research. Piet van Schalkwyk's work on the topic is very instructional and the "South African Colours and Markings Vol 1 No 5" that he did with William Marshall is a great help. Then the internet - what a tool to at least get one looking at the subject from a different point of view. I decided quite early that I wanted to show the slats deployed, and this was going to be a challenge. The Revell F-86D held the key however (since the resin slat replacements had dried up over the years) and a trip to Esswex Hobbies to find the re-boxed Monogram kit gave me a starting point.

So, here we go.

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Author:  Mars [ 14 May 2017, 20:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Slatted Sabre - in 1:48 Scale
This is going to be good :-D
Author:  Mars [ 14 May 2017, 20:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Slatted Sabre - in 1:48 Scale
For some reason after seeing this post I literally went to go microwave a bag of popcorn.
Author:  Dean [ 14 May 2017, 22:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Slatted Sabre - in 1:48 Scale
:lol:

Yup, after that intro, I'm looking forward to watching this one.
Author:  Joker [ 15 May 2017, 10:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Slatted Sabre - in 1:48 Scale
Hi Madmax,

Nice to see a SAAF Sabre in 1/48. I am also in the process of doing a MK-6 and have found some interesting facts about the MK6. I am sure you know most of these but I will list them anyway. The Mk-6 Cockpit was light Gray inside as opposed to the earlier Black.(According to the internet this changed in 1954). The wheel wells and airbrakes were painted dark green as opposed to the earlier Zink Chromate. The Hasegawa kit is basically a F-86 and to do a Mk-6 two vents need to be added to the fuselage side as well as two new panels on each side and a filler cap panel on the right hand side. The sugar scoop intakes in the lower fuselage was also fitted to the Canadian manufactured Sabres. The wing of the Revell/Monogram kit is a small wing so the slats need to be grafted onto the Hasegawa wing. Unfortunately it is not just a simple wing swap.(Or you can cut and extend the Revell wing but then the piece below the fuselage needs to be swapped as well.) Interestingly the sweep angle on the trailing edge of the two kits are different. I have not found out which is correct.
I see on the decals there are two sizes of castles. I was under the impression that the Sabre only carried 24-inch castles.
Looking forward to this build.
Regards
Joker
Author:  Mistral [ 15 May 2017, 16:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Slatted Sabre - in 1:48 Scale
That F-86D kit is way too nice to chop up. I think you should scratch build the slats and cast resin pieces!! And then sell the masters to John at Scaleworx.....8) 8) 8) .

Anyway, looking forward to this one. I've never really had the desire to build a Sabre so hopefully you'll pique my interest !
Author:  Madmax [ 16 May 2017, 18:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Slatted Sabre - in 1:48 Scale
Thanks for your show of interest gents!

Most amusing MARS, we really do need a popcorn-man please Dean.

Joker, I concur with all your points of research. You do know a lot of stuff. I'm willing to bet your Sabre will have a blue fuselage band :D .

Malcolm, it does seem a waste. I justify it with the potential use of the tractor. Want the fuselage?
Author:  Dean [ 16 May 2017, 20:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Slatted Sabre - in 1:48 Scale
No popcorn man, but I do have this one on page 4 of the Smilie list :drinkers:
Author:  Madmax [ 16 May 2017, 20:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Slatted Sabre - in 1:48 Scale
So, how to get slats onto the wing?

Initially it seemed as if a resin leading edge and slat replacement was the way to go. Unfortunately these are no longer readily available - as with many old models, they go out of fashion.

For the uninitiated, I must mention that Sabres had many different wings. Much like Spitfires. You can look this up yourself. The Sabre in question is the one the SAAF bought from Canadair, a CL-13B Mk.6. This Sabre has a broad chord 6-3 wing with slats. Hasegawa were having none of it, and went for a 6-3 "hard wing" on their Mk 5 kit - simple moulding. When they offered the Mk.6 they went for a North American wing, the F-86F-40, and had to include a different wingtip and instructions how to cut out a piece and glue, and ugh! Still no slats, not good.

Then I saw that the Revell F-86D had slats. Eureka!

Some builders have grafted this complete wing onto the Hasegawa fuselage, but it has some problems. Here is a comparison of wings

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They are quite different, and I salute the guys who got it right to mate them. The sweep angle and chord of the "Dog" wing are wrong for the SAAF Sabre. Here is a scientific study of the problem... http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/sabrewingsjh_1.htm

(by the way the F-86F-30 wing is probably the same as the 6-3 wing). Any takers? :roll:
Author:  Madmax [ 17 May 2017, 12:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Slatted Sabre - in 1:48 Scale
For those that are curious about the different wings, here is a lovely post "demystifying" the subject: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/ind ... ystified/&

Back to the question of how to get the slats onto the Sabre. In the above mentioned article you will see a mod which uses the entire leading edge from the "donor" kit, which is also how many of the resin mods are done. This requires a very neat cut to graft onto, and a lot of sanding and filling and stuff. I stared long and hard at the parts involved, and came up with the following solution.

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Since the Dog's slat is very close to the perfect length for the Mk.6's wing, why not just cut out the recessed slat leading edge with the roller-arms (made up name), then cut an opening in the Hasegawa 6-3 wing that exactly matches the now sliced up leading edge of the F-86D's wing, and simply mate the two. That way the basic wing shape stays correct for a Mk.6, it fits the fuselage perfectly since it's from the same kit (duh), and will hopefully require minimum filling and sanding and stuff.

Like this...

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There is a very prominent hinged looking panel line on top of the wing. Notice the difference in distance to the leading edge, the Mk.6 having a broader wing.

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Then I had to pay attention to the lower half of the wing. On the right hand side it was slightly warped due a flaw in the plastic. and needed some metal to straighten it out - hence the brass rod. Once that was done, I promptly overdid the sanding to get a flat section like the original Dog's lower section. Styrene strip to the rescue.

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And here are the completed halves ready for joining. I messed up the left join a bit, hence the styrene filler. The lower half needs little openings to match the roller- arms positions. A fiddly job.

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Author:  Dean [ 17 May 2017, 15:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Slatted Sabre - in 1:48 Scale
Phew wee! A very elegant solution. =D>
Author:  Mistral [ 17 May 2017, 17:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Slatted Sabre - in 1:48 Scale
Very nicely done :smt023 .

Is that Monogram D the same as the Revell D ? The Revell D was done by their A-team.

Back to topic....
Author:  Madmax [ 17 May 2017, 19:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Slatted Sabre - in 1:48 Scale
Thanks Dean and Malcolm.

I see on the inside of the Dog's wing it says "COPYRIGHT 2001 REVELL - MONOGRAM ..." so I assume it is the same thing. Lovely kit!

Joker pointed out that the kit is basically an F-86. Here you can see that he is spot on, and that the fuselage needs some work too...

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The decal instructions hold the key to the smaller castles - they are for the the camouflage Sabres.

Then the dreaded ejector pin marks put in their appearance again, filler required #-o

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Author:  Joker [ 18 May 2017, 08:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Slatted Sabre - in 1:48 Scale
Hi Madmax

An excellent solution to the slats. I would have gone the silly way to cut the front part of the wing and splice it. I forgot to mention the bump at the front of the fin fillet needs to be flush on the Mk-6 and there is no step at the slats. Most models have this wrong for all slatted aircraft.

Regards your query on the F-30 wing. The F-30 and F-35(fighter bomber) originally came with the small slatted wing. With the Migs out-turning the Sabre at high altitude, 6-3 extensions were rushed to Korea. On the production line the 6-3 extensions were standardized from the 177th and 200th aircraft. The F-40 wing was fitted to aircraft for Japan but when the advantage of the larger slatted wing became apparent, most USAF F-30's were retro fitted with the f-40 wing, so it boils down to which aircraft at what time. So far as I can make out the Mk-6 was the only Sabre to have the 6-3 extension with slats but without the extended span. From pilot reports it was the ultimate Sabre to fly.

Hope it clears it up.

Regards

Joker
Author:  Madmax [ 19 May 2017, 19:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Slatted Sabre - in 1:48 Scale
Now that, Joker, is a hell of a good explanation of the evolution of the wings! Thank you.



I often wonder if it is worth going to the effort of refining and painting the inside of the jet-pipe and intakes, especially in 1:48th scale.

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But after a great deal of trial end error to get this photograph of the intake, I think the answer is definitely - Yes.

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The "sugar scoop" intakes at the rear of the trailing edge are quite a feature of the Mk.6, and here you can see how I carved them out of styrene. The fit is quite difficult as the fuselage is curved in two planes at their location. You can also see the vents cut out of the side panel at mid fuselage. The refueling point is filled with superglue, but you can't really see that in this photo.

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Because the idea is to do this model in natural metal, it could really use some rivet detail. Here the work on the gun-bay door, which is not spaced quite to scale, but close enough for government work.

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After looking at a couple of photographs, I decided on accentuating only certain key areas to make the fuselage more riveting. :D

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In the meantime I also did the cockpit bits and pieces. It is a bit sparse, but I wasn't in the mood for fiddling much as it is actually the metal finish that I am interested on this build.

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This resin seat came from a failed attempt at a Korean Sabre some years ago. No idea who produced it - but I really like it.

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And the green interior paint Joker referred to...

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