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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 07:51 
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Wonder if it would have helped if the Oryx had wire cutters like the Rooivalk...?

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 07:58 
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heard on the radio this morning, it WAS new lines, and it didn't have the high visiblity balls on them yet.
See more here:
http://sce.tumblr.com/post/103487625196/what-are-those-balls-that-hang-on-power-lines


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 07:59 
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On route back from Touwsrivier with a A109 engine strapped in the back and all the family members. Hit wires at 300ft on the Worcester side of the Huegenot tunnel. Wires are brand new (put up this week) with no notams. AMS also knew nothing of the wires and they fly there every day. Copilot and engineer are getting discharged as we speak. Cmdr has a back injury and are kept at 2 Mil for the evening. All family members walked away without a scratch.

From what I can see about the crash is that the tail rotor is missing in all the images,looks like they where flying too low over road and pitched the helicopter up to avoid wires and hit them with the tail rotor and spun onto road and crashed.I don't see any wire damage to front of the of the helicopter,or rotor mast due to wires,the wheels are also out.so there was enough time to put the wheels down.

Flying low over roads is always a danger hitting wires. whether they where new wires or not,its pilot error.

The question is.
1.Why where family members on board?
2.Carry a load with passengers(Public)?
3.Why where they flying so low to hit wires in a mountainous area?
4.Why where they flying low over the road?
5.Wires at 91 meters is quite high?
6.Why where they unaware they where there?where they really new ones?

@Jakes..Wire cutters seldom help..they have a 5% success rate on helicopters

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Last edited by Airfire on 11 Dec 2017, 08:11, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 08:10 
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rynopot wrote:
heard on the radio this morning, it WAS new lines, and it didn't have the high visiblity balls on them yet.
See more here:
http://sce.tumblr.com/post/103487625196/what-are-those-balls-that-hang-on-power-lines


Not all wires are required to have high vis balls on them.Only near high aircraft traffic zones,Aircraft are suppose to have a good clearance height over roads and mountains,they where flying too low over the road,many dangerous obstacles are found close to roads and is always a danger,wires or not.

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 08:45 
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Looks like they managed to get the landing gear down before the crash =D>
Kudos to the pilot! I drove that road in both directions yesterday morning. The wind was worse than it was at the air show \:D/
I wonder what the view of the accident was like for the A109 :shock:
Any idea if the A109 air lifted the crew to 2mil?

Pics I took of the aircraft on Saturday...
Image

Image



Image

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 08:52 
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Quote:
3.Why where they flying so low to hit wires in a mountainous area?
4.Why where they flying low over the road?


My guess would be because the wind was incredibly bad and they tried to get some shelter from the mountains?

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 08:52 
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The South African Air Force (SAAF) helicopter that crashed on the N1 highway just outside Cape Town on Sunday morning was transporting a helicopter engine when if flew through newly erected wires.
The Oryx medium transport helicopter, operated by 22 Squadron based at AFB Ysterplaat, crash landed and ended up on its side just outside the Huguenot tunnel on the Worcester side.
An occupant of the helicopter said that they flew through newly erected wires at 300 feet before crashing onto the highway, narrowly missing a road resurfacing machine and scattering debris onto the road.
Of the three crew and five passengers aboard, only the aircraft commander received serious injuries, having fractured two lumbar vertebrae. He was admitted to 2 Military Hospital in Wynberg, Cape Town for further treatment and overnight observation. The co-pilot and flight engineer were discharged, having only received moderate injuries. “All family members walked away without a scratch,” the aircraft occupant said.
South African National Defence Force (SANDF) spokesperson Siphiwe Dlamini said the crew of eight was on a tasking to assist a training team in Touwsriver, near Worcester. Dlamini noted that the passengers were helicopter technicians and mechanics.
The Oryx, tail number 1236, had just participated in the AFB Langebaanweg / Silver Falcons 50th Anniversary Airshow on the Saturday. It was flying in company with an Agusta A109 light helicopter of 15 Squadron, Durban which also participated at the airshow.
The accident happened after they completed their training assignment and were on their way back to AFB Ysterplaat. The Oryx was also carrying a spare engine for the Agusta A109.
The area is well known to the Cape Town based helicopter crew, but it appears that the wire the Oryx hit had only recently been erected in a valley of the Du Toitskloof Mountains.
“Wires are brand new (only put up this week) with no notams,”the crew member said.
A Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) is a notice filed with an aviation authority to alert aircraft pilots of potential hazards along a flight route or at a location that could affect the safety of the flight.
He added that not even the SA Red Cross Air Mercy Service (AMS) knew about the wires, despite AMS also have extensive flight experience in the area.


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 08:58 
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Remember, this is within FAD159, a designated flying training area.

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 08:59 
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Rosh wrote:
Looks like they managed to get the landing gear down before the crash =D>


It is common practice to have the gear out when flying low. Not sure in this case.

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 09:09 
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Dean wrote:
Rosh wrote:
Looks like they managed to get the landing gear down before the crash =D>


It is common practice to have the gear out when flying low. Not sure in this case.


Check some dashcam footage just before the crash. Hard to see but doesn't look like it.

https://www.facebook.com/conrad.thiart/ ... 071500668/


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 09:45 
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Yip..they where flying very fast, too high speed for wheels to be out.Also why there is no time to react to power lines.Too fast at low altitude is dangerous flying.Cars look to be doing about 80kmph the helicopters where over 100Knts easy in the footage.Looks like a show off to family members on board,flying fast and low,pilot in the return loosing situational awareness of the power lines ahead.

BTW the wires are not new,they can be easy found on google earth which is NOT a new street view.They do not have balls on them at all either.March 2015 street view?!
Image

The video is here..you can see wire's on road,at the exact spot on the street view.So it remains pilot error not planing the route,as they where off route,a last minute detour to show family members on the Oryx low flying at HIGH speed in mountain gorges along road.



They where very lucky to get away with this accident,could have been far worse if the Oryx crashed into rocks,the crew did have enough time to put the helicopter down,getting the wheels out in time doing a forced landing on the road with no tail rotor while helicopter was spinning around,hence the long skid on road.As the tail rotor must have taken the wire strike,as its absent on the helicopter wreckage.As I said before they must have tried to ascend at the last moment..the tail rotor hitting the wires.Going out of balance due to the hit and disintegrated,The crew did well to save the day in the end.

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 10:26 
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Airfire wrote:
Yip..they where flying very fast, too high speed for wheels to be out.Also why there is no time to react to power lines.Too fast at low altitude is dangerous flying.Cars look to be doing about 80kmph the helicopters where over 100Knts easy in the footage.Looks like a show off to family members on board,flying fast and low,pilot in the return loosing situational awareness of the power lines ahead.

BTW the wires are not new,they can be easy found on google earth which is NOT a new street view.They do not have balls on them at all either.March 2015 street view?!
Image

The video is here..you can see wire's on road,at the exact spot on the street view.So it remains pilot error not planing the route,as they where off route,a last minute detour to show family members on the Oryx low flying at HIGH speed in mountain gorges along road.



They where very lucky to get away with this accident,could have been far worse if the Oryx crashed into rocks,the crew did have enough time to put the helicopter down,getting the wheels out in time doing a forced landing on the road with no tail rotor while helicopter was spinning around,hence the long skid on road.As the tail rotor must have taken the wire strike,as its absent on the helicopter wreckage.As I said before they must have tried to ascend at the last moment..the tail rotor hitting the wires.Going out of balance due to the hit and disintegrated,The crew did well to save the day in the end.


That isn't the site of the crash, which we can assume happened close to the cables.

Here is the crash sight, no cables in sight:

https://www.google.co.za/maps/@-33.7204 ... 6656?hl=en

It is also worth noting that 100knots at 300 foot is not a dangerous situation for a helicopter. In fact, it's safer than if they were doing say, 30 knots as they have the airspeed to do a safe autorotation.


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 10:33 
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2010 street view has no cables..Foxtrot..they also flew a while after the impact.This happend I guess as the tail rotor took a while to disintegrate.Giving them time to plan a forced landing.Vibration in the rudder pedals would have been the first warning.

In the confines of gorge flying high speed is dangerous for helicopters.winds and the difficulty to turn sharp at speed..open no obstacles is not a problem for helicopters.You can have less airspeed, but! you still need height to execute a safe auto-rotation. They where in the dead mans curve at that altitude.

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 11:37 
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I'm no aviation specialist...but that valley is quite wide. The crash site is about 2-3km from the tunnel. There are road works both directions on the N1 after the tunnel...so the cars are having to drive under 80km/h. It does look like they're moving at a good speed though! Surely the A109 pilot and co must have seen the incident...

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 11:40 
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I understand your enthusiasm in trying to get behind what happened. However, assigning blame without all the facts is not only premature but unprofessional/reckless as well. [-X
I think it is ok to speculate, but please refrain from blaming while you do not have all the facts?

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