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 Post subject: The Alvis Salamander
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2014, 15:50 
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Joined: 12 Feb 2011, 23:59
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Location: 34º 05' 54" S 18º 22' 49"E


Does anyone know how many of these the SAAF owned? We had two at Langebaanweg in the 1960s.


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 Post subject: Re: The Alvis Salamander
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2014, 21:40 
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Joined: 20 Sep 2005, 16:12
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Those were based on the same companies Saracen chassis, if I recall correctly.
As such, they must have guzzled fuel at a prodigious rate.

The chassis was provided to companies that specialised in fire fighting apparatus.

The vast majority were built up by Pyrene, but Foamite built 7 for the SAAF in the late 1950's/early 1960's, and these are thus very rare.

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.ph ... and-Pyrene)


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 Post subject: Re: The Alvis Salamander
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2014, 22:00 
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Joined: 12 Feb 2011, 23:59
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Location: 34º 05' 54" S 18º 22' 49"E
leading edge wrote:
Those were based on the same companies Saracen chassis, if I recall correctly.
As such, they must have guzzled fuel at a prodigious rate.

The chassis was provided to companies that specialised in fire fighting apparatus.

The vast majority were built up by Pyrene, but Foamite built 7 for the SAAF in the late 1950's/early 1960's, and these are thus very rare.

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.ph ... and-Pyrene)


It's hard to believe the SAAF only acquired 7. 2 at Langebaanweg, at least 1 at Ysterplaat (you always saw it at the tower when you landed there) so where were the other 4? And what were the stations that did not have them using as monitors? I know they leaked like crazy - the fitters at LBW fire station were constantly trying to get the water tank watertight with little success! Ours had, which the one in the video does not, a bank of foam nozzles under the front - to foam spray the runway prior to an attempted crash landing. Next to the school at LBW they had a sort of obstacle course for armoured vehicles and the Salamanders and Saracens (we had 2 of those as well and a few Ferrets) would regularly work out there - much to the delight of us snot-nosed brats. Everybody in the fire service was vastly pleased when the things were replaced by the Chubb(?) monitors in the early 1970s. Friday was always fire brigade day at LBW somebody would drive around the camp and press the fire alarm button in each street - checking to see if it worked. Then the two Salamanders would spray foam (still that old oxblood which stank to high heaven) from their monitors onto the grass(sic) next to the bioscope. Us kiddies delighted in playing in it (to the disgust of our mothers) but ones legs itched like crazy afterwards. Enough nostalgia.....


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 Post subject: Re: The Alvis Salamander
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2014, 00:18 
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Joined: 20 Sep 2005, 16:12
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Eugene wrote:
leading edge wrote:
Those were based on the same companies Saracen chassis, if I recall correctly.
As such, they must have guzzled fuel at a prodigious rate.

The chassis was provided to companies that specialised in fire fighting apparatus.

The vast majority were built up by Pyrene, but Foamite built 7 for the SAAF in the late 1950's/early 1960's, and these are thus very rare.

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.ph ... and-Pyrene)


It's hard to believe the SAAF only acquired 7. 2 at Langebaanweg, at least 1 at Ysterplaat (you always saw it at the tower when you landed there) so where were the other 4? And what were the stations that did not have them using as monitors? I know they leaked like crazy - the fitters at LBW fire station were constantly trying to get the water tank watertight with little success! Ours had, which the one in the video does not, a bank of foam nozzles under the front - to foam spray the runway prior to an attempted crash landing. Next to the school at LBW they had a sort of obstacle course for armoured vehicles and the Salamanders and Saracens (we had 2 of those as well and a few Ferrets) would regularly work out there - much to the delight of us snot-nosed brats. Everybody in the fire service was vastly pleased when the things were replaced by the Chubb(?) monitors in the early 1970s. Friday was always fire brigade day at LBW somebody would drive around the camp and press the fire alarm button in each street - checking to see if it worked. Then the two Salamanders would spray foam (still that old oxblood which stank to high heaven) from their monitors onto the grass(sic) next to the bioscope. Us kiddies delighted in playing in it (to the disgust of our mothers) but ones legs itched like crazy afterwards. Enough nostalgia.....


The Chubb Pathfinders were introduced in the 1970's, as you say.
If the SAAF Salamanders had foam nozzles up front, then this must be one of the primary differences between the Pyrene and Foamite vehicles.
Interestingly, the practice amongst many companies was to utilise an existing chassis or platform, and equip it for various firefighting purposes. We had, for example, Rosenbauer foam tenders that were on Mercedes platforms...etc.

I was a fulltime fireman for 5 or 6 years after I'd left the army, and we still had oxblood foam in the stores, but more of a curiosity at that stage, due to the usage of modern AFFF.
Either way, it was highly sort after, due to it having the amazing effect of giving one, once mixed with water, the greenest lawn in the neighbourhood, and earning the envy of the neighbours.
But man, did it stink...

We had a lovely old Dennis TL from the 1950's, as well as a beautiful Dennis from the '30's (I think...it's been a while) with open cab and crew accomodation along the running boards. This was powered by a Rolls Royce engine, and although it required double clutching when being driven, it could still give the modern pumps a go for their money when it came to pumping water.

There was also a seriously well kept Dennis from around 1914 or even earlier.
I know it was well kept, as the rookie firemen were well equipped with brasso, polish, and cloth to keep it all shiny....


Those vehicles must be worth a fortune these days...


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PostPosted: 31 Aug 2023, 21:24 
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Joined: 30 Aug 2023, 09:32
Posts: 1
Location: Dorset, UK
Thanks for the add,
I came across this forum whilst researching the Alvis Stalwart.

Just to give some information
Alvis' Chief engineer helped the UK's Fighting Vehicle Research and Development Establishment design a Punt hull, with H drive and permanent 6x6 - for an armoured car

See my page here on the Punt hull https://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-section/development-of-the-punt-hull

The Saladin armoured car was the first off the block, but because of the troubles in Malaysia, Saladin production was halted to let the new Alvis Saracen - Armoured personnel carrier come out.


Alvis then asked, what next for the 6x6 chassis?

The Salamander chassis, as supplied to Pyrene and Foamite
Image

With pyrene, they knocked up a fire fighter to show to FVRDE. This became F.V. 6001
This is from FVRDE's 1954 catalogue.

Image

In 1956, the catalogue records the FV651A
Image

Canada are said to have bought 34 Pyrene examples
Image

Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) bought some Pyrene, but I've yet to find out how many.
Image

One that belongs to Britain's Army Fire Service ended up being converted to a water canon, for "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland.
Image

This magazine article shows that South Africa bought at least 5.
Image

Whilst I'm still gathering information, more details are on my website's dedicated page
https://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/alvis-salamander-crash-tender

Mark


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