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PostPosted: 06 Oct 2011, 15:58 
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Here's the list I could compile from photographic evidence I have including their new registration numbers:

236 = TR-KMN
237 = TR-KMP
239 = TR-KML
(Thanks Kremlin)
241 = TR-KMM
244 = TR-KMO


Mirage F1AZ #235 wasn't sold to Aerosud, but it's the one that's on static display known as the "world's fastest dairy truck" at the Swartkops SAAF museum.

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Last edited by Falcon 1 on 08 Oct 2011, 01:03, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 06 Oct 2011, 16:43 
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Do you know what month and what year 237 was flown to Gabon??


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2011, 08:27 
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Falcon 1 wrote:
239 = TR-KM... ?
I have this one as TR-KML.
If 237 = KMP, then we are indeed missing an exported AZ serial, looking at the Gabon tie-ups, we have not yet found KMQ. So definitively at least six sold by Aerosud to Gabon then.

From the Defenceweb article of April 2011: The last two of the six, went in August 2010.
Quote:
The Paramount Group is negotiating with several potential customers for the sale of ex-South African Air Force Mirage F1AZ aircraft, and hopes to conclude deals later this year. Paramount executive chairman Ivor Ichikowitz also confirmed that the company had delivered two F1AZs to Congo-Brazzavile and the remainder of an order for six to Gabon.

Air Forces Monthly, in its May edition, said that four F1AZs left Pietersburg Airport in South Africa on August 9 last year. Two were delivered to Congo-Brazzaville for the Force Aerienne Congolaise and the other two went to the Force Aeriennes Gabonaises.

Gabon received two F1AZs in August 2006, followed by two more in November 2007. Ichikowitz said it was possible that Gabon may buy more F1AZs. On August 17 last year Gabon celebrated the 50th anniversary of independence from France with a military parade with 7 000 men and a flypast by five ex-SAAF F1AZs.

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?o ... Itemid=107

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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2011, 09:12 
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What are the ex-SAAF serials for the 2 Congolese aircraft?

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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2011, 11:23 
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Clifford3959 wrote:
Yip...I think all F-1's purchased by Aerosud are at Hoedspruit....except 227 is at Waterkloof


Correct about 227, as she was standing at the back of the hangars during the Waterkloof airshow.

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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2013, 17:05 
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Kremlin wrote:
hmmmm ... what's your F1AZ list look like ? :-k

Not nearly as comprehensive, I'm missing the two Force Aérienne Congolaise jets and I can't find the serial for the missing TR-KMQ that should logically have been sold to Gabon:

Format:
Serial
Status
Present Location
Note

216
Stored but apparently airworthy
Aerosud/
AFB Hoedspruit?
SuperMirage with SMR-95

217
Operational
Gabon
TR-KMP

218
Stored
AFB Hoedspruit?
Bought by Paramount

219
Stored
AFB Hoedspruit?
Bought by Paramount

220
Stored
AFB Hoedspruit?
Bought by Paramount

221
w/o - 1992/02/05

222
w/o - 1985/04/03

223
w/o - 1988/03/19

224
w/o - 1994/06/09

225
Stored
AFB Hoedspruit?
Bought by Paramount

226
Stored
AFB Hoedspruit?
Bought by Paramount

227
Stored
AFB Waterkloof

228
w/o - 1984/03/13

229
Stored
AFB Hoedspruit?
Bought by Paramount

230
Stored
AFB Hoedspruit?
Bought by Paramount

231
Stored
AFB Hoedspruit?
Bought by Paramount

232
Operational
Congo-Brazzaville
Force Aérienne Congolaise

233
Stored but airworthy
Aerosud/AFB Hoedspruit?
Blue paintscheme

234
w/o - 1993/11/23

235
Stored
SAAF Museum, Swartkop
'Milk Truck’

236
Operational
Gabon
TR-KMN

237
Stored
AFB Hoedspruit?
Bought by Paramount

238
Stored
AFB Hoedspruit?
Bought by Paramount

239
Operational
Gabon
TR-KML

240
Stored
AFB Hoedspruit?
Bought by Paramount

241
Operational
Gabon
TR-KMM

242
Stored
AFB Hoedspruit?
Bought by Paramount

243
Operational
Gabon
TR-KMQ, maybe?

244
Operational
Gabon
TR-KMO

245
w/o - 1988/02/20

246
w/o - 1979/02/15

247
Stored
AFB Hoedspruit?
Bought by Paramount

Edit: Swapped 237 and 217 as per Kremlin's post
Edit: Added 232 and 243 statuses, thanks again Kremlin!


Last edited by Darren on 02 Oct 2013, 23:15, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2013, 18:10 
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Great Darren, we definitively need to crunch these AZ serial numbers .... I am also missing the two Congolese a/c & three of the Gabonese a/c (Paramount/Aersosud sold eight to Gabon ?) ... but let me firstly confuse things a little ... Gabonese Air Force TR-KMP is actually 217 ... 8-[ :-k

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Some very nice Gabonese F1AZ pics of 217 + 236 here:
http://novikovski.livejournal.com/173662.html

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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2013, 20:35 
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Kremlin wrote:
Great Darren, we definitively need to crunch these AZ serial numbers .... I am also missing the two Congolese a/c & three of the Gabonese a/c (Paramount/Aersosud sold eight to Gabon ?) ... but let me firstly confuse things a little ... Gabonese Air Force TR-KMP is actually 217 ... 8-[ :-k

Image
Some very nice Gabonese F1AZ pics of 217 + 236 here:
http://novikovski.livejournal.com/173662.html

Awesome find! I swapped 217 and 237 around on the list, on the assumption that someone misidentified 217 as 237 owing to bad light or bad eyesight or something. Or 237 might also be a Gabonese plane. I'll leave it as is till we get some more hard evidence though.

I've heard both six and eight for the Gabonese sale, can't get confirmation on how many. I'll give Paramount a call in the morning to see if they'll be willing to part with the information.


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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2013, 20:55 
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Why do they retain the SAAF serial as in the Gabon picture. Is South Africa in the mercenary game leasing out retired SAAF aircraft and "mercenary" pilots to fly them? Got a funny feeling about this... :roll:


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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2013, 21:03 
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The F1AZs in Force Aérienne Congolaise service are flown by South Africans, or at least were for the first year of service. A similar scenario may be in place in Gabon, but not necessarily as the force does have Alpha Jets and may have trained pilots on the F1AZs. Of course in both cases it may just be a temporary training arrangement, as Paramount and Aerosud run a fast-jet training school that can train pilots all the way to F1AZ competence.

The aircraft are definitely no longer on the SAAF register, so the retention of the SAAF serials is probably just a matter of convenience and keeping what was already on the aircraft. They'll probably disappear when the aircraft are first repainted.


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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2013, 21:14 
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:lol: :lol:

Gripen1 .... Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you 8-[ :D

A summary of bits that I've put together regarding the Paramount/Aerosud F1AZ's:
Quote:
In 2003 the South African Air Force put 21 decommissioned F1AZ aircraft up for disposal by way of Armscor. Aerosud and the Paramount Group acquired the aircraft, complete with spares, simulators, training aids and other related materiel. The Paramount group would refurbish the aircraft with the intention of selling them to other governments, pending prior approval of the sale, from the SA government. By 2010 the company had delivered two F1AZ's to the Force Aerienne Congolaise in Congo-Brazzavile and eight F1AZ's to the Forces Aerienne Gabonaises in Gabon. The Congalese F1's were delivered in August 2010. Gabon received two F1AZs in August 2006, TR-KML (ex 239 SAAF) and TR-KMM (ex 241 SAAF), followed by two more in November 2007, TR-KMN (ex 236 SAAF) and TR-KMO (ex 244 SAAF), two in February 2008, with the last two being delivered in August 2010.


We've also seen similar, with the retaining of SAAF serials on the Cheetah's sold to Ecuador.

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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2013, 22:18 
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Kremlin wrote:
We've also seen similar, with the retaining of SAAF serials on the Cheetah's sold to Ecuador.

Yep, though what makes this different is that the aircraft have also been allocated TR- serials.

That highlights the interesting point that Gabon Air Force planes get allocated civil register serials in the TR- range, the air force does not maintain an independent register as is the case in most of the world.


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PostPosted: 02 Oct 2013, 23:02 
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Two more serials to add :D

232 to Congo
243 to Gabon

Saved this HD vid with downloadhelper & then extracted some jpgs. Unfortunately only the SAAF serial #'s visible.


Image
232 to Congo

Image
232 to Congo

Image
243 to Gabon

Image
243 to Gabon

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PostPosted: 02 Oct 2013, 23:17 
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Brent, your ability to hunt these serials down once again astounds me. Fantastic job! I've edited the list to include those statuses.


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PostPosted: 03 Oct 2013, 13:40 
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Last edited by Hyperion on 03 Oct 2013, 16:16, edited 1 time in total.

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