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 Post subject: Re: 250 ADAG
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2011, 17:49 
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Just to throw some pics into the mix. Even though french , can show that these dayglow colours were not unique to us. And can allude to the colour of our missiles.

Image

Image

Image

Cactus at Swartkops:

Image

And the named Zumlac:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: 250 ADAG
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2011, 00:45 
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koffiepit wrote:
I see that the Zumlac system is mounted on the back of a Samil 100 mine protected truck.

One's immedaite reacion on seeing that is that it constitus an excellent prime target for aircraft in search of ground targets. The second thought is that because it is mounted on the back of a truck it makes it very clumsy for surface target engagements while on the move. It is almost the equivalent of a bomber with a on board gun mounted in the back.

Is'nt it much better to build it into a turret, together with a radar sight, and mount the lot onto a Rooikat chassis? (Just a thought) = much more mobile and versatile. It should be excellent for air and surface engagements.


There is actually such a prototype somewhere but usin two 35mm guns. The turret looks a lot like the German Gepard.
Since then Denel have developed their own 35mm cannon, better performing than the old GDF. No prizes for guessing that its the gun used in the frigates' CIWS.
I think it's worth redoing another up-to-date air defence Rooikat using much of the latest technology from the naval system.
Truck mounting is far from ideal and the towed GDFs are getting really old and unreliable - remember the big accident at Lohatla a few years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: 250 ADAG
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2011, 08:44 
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Roger the Dodger wrote:
There is actually such a prototype somewhere but usin two 35mm guns. The turret looks a lot like the German Gepard.


Not only the Gepard , but also the Polish PZA Loara.


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 Post subject: Re: 250 ADAG
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2011, 09:19 
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koffiepit wrote:
Roger the Dodger wrote:
koffiepit wrote:
What do we use now for anti-aircraft systems?


Towed GDF twin 35mm cannon

Truck mounted twin 23mm cannon (Zumlac)

Starstreak short range SAM (tripod launchers, not manpads)

Truck mounted Umkhonto SAM is still under development.

AFAIK the Ystervark truck mounted 20mm guns are all retired.


I see that the Zumlac system is mounted on the back of a Samil 100 mine protected truck.

One's immedaite reacion on seeing that is that it constitus an excellent prime target for aircraft in search of ground targets. The second thought is that because it is mounted on the back of a truck it makes it very clumsy for surface target engagements while on the move. It is almost the equivalent of a bomber with a on board gun mounted in the back.

Is'nt it much better to build it into a turret, together with a radar sight, and mount the lot onto a Rooikat chassis? (Just a thought) = much more mobile and versatile. It should be excellent for air and surface engagements.



Image

The Rooikat SPAAG (Self Propelled Anti-Aircraft Gun). The Rooikat ZA35 had two 35x228 mm KDA cannons. It was not put into production.


Photo is very bad but is the only one I could find.

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 Post subject: Re: 250 ADAG
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2011, 10:46 
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prion wrote:
Roger the Dodger wrote:
There is actually such a prototype somewhere but usin two 35mm guns. The turret looks a lot like the German Gepard.


Not only the Gepard , but also the Polish PZA Loara.


Image


This looks very similar to a Rooikat chassis :?:

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 Post subject: Re: 250 ADAG
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2011, 11:02 
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H1017412 wrote:
prion wrote:
Roger the Dodger wrote:
There is actually such a prototype somewhere but usin two 35mm guns. The turret looks a lot like the German Gepard.


Not only the Gepard , but also the Polish PZA Loara.


Image


This looks very similar to a Rooikat chassis :?:


It is one . This is the SA prototype. The PZA Loara is tracked


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 Post subject: Re: 250 ADAG
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2011, 11:22 
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The Rooikat SPAAG (self propelled anti-aircraft gun) development was called project ''Prima". It was one of many projects that was closed down and all funding was stopped by the "new" government in around 1995/1996 if I'm correct. the intention was to have both a SPAAG and a SPAAM (Self propelled anti-aircraft missile) mounted on the Rooikat. These systems was equipped with both radar and TV/IR camera tracking. The Umkontho (spelling??) missile was intended to be used with the SPAAM system and was known as the "NGM"-missile development at the time.
(NGM=new generation missile)

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 Post subject: Re: 250 ADAG
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2011, 11:46 
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That's an interesting Rooikat conversion 8)

Check this one out: http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1270.html

Regards,
Stratobat

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 Post subject: Re: 250 ADAG
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2011, 11:55 
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boertjie wrote:
The Rooikat SPAAG (self propelled anti-aircraft gun) development was called project ''Prima". It was one of many projects that was closed down and all funding was stopped by the "new" government in around 1995/1996 if I'm correct. the intention was to have both a SPAAG and a SPAAM (Self propelled anti-aircraft missile) mounted on the Rooikat. These systems was equipped with both radar and TV/IR camera tracking. The Umkontho (spelling??) missile was intended to be used with the SPAAM system and was known as the "NGM"-missile development at the time.
(NGM=new generation missile)


I think you would find the intended missile for the SPAAM was the SAHV.


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 Post subject: Re: 250 ADAG
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2011, 12:01 
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The T6 turret was DLS (LIW) proposal to the Indian army requirement for a SP-artillery gun. It is basically a G6-52 mounted on a T-72 chassis. Surely not an AA-gun at all. But a strange combo if that was what you intended showing, it surely was.
By the way, not intending to hi-jack the thread, that proposal is not totally dead yet.....

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 Post subject: Re: 250 ADAG
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2011, 12:02 
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Prion
The SAHV was in fact the NGM...

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 Post subject: Re: 250 ADAG
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2011, 12:11 
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Hey Boertjie,

boertjie wrote:
Surely not an AA-gun at all. But a strange combo if that was what you intended showing, it surely was.


That was my intention, yes.

Regards,
Stratobat

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 Post subject: Re: 250 ADAG
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2011, 18:30 
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meerkat wrote:
Image

The Rooikat SPAAG (Self Propelled Anti-Aircraft Gun). The Rooikat ZA35 had two 35x228 mm KDA cannons. It was not put into production.


Photo is very bad but is the only one I could find.



Sorry Meerkat but that photo is a fake. It's a (quite bad) photoshop of a Loara turret combined with a Rooikat chassis. The site where you found it - satruth.co.za - is a notorious right wing nutcase site.


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 Post subject: Re: 250 ADAG
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2011, 19:29 
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prion wrote:
It is one . This is the SA prototype. The PZA Loara is tracked


Interesting - I imagine that that turret would create a fairly large silhouette, reminiscent of a Sovet KV2.

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 Post subject: Re: 250 ADAG
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2011, 21:26 
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H1017412 wrote:
prion wrote:
It is one . This is the SA prototype. The PZA Loara is tracked


Interesting - I imagine that that turret would create a fairly large silhouette, reminiscent of a Sovet KV2.



Yep. The silhouette is quite large. Do not forget that the ZA-35 had a signature from its ESD-S ETS 2400 system. But the KV-2 was a lumbering AT system. But as you know AA defence would not be frontal deployed. It is a rear echelon asset.


By the way there are still rumours going around that the PZA Loara was based on the ZA-35. The Polish even had the SAHV missile as a final short-list development system.


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