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 Post subject: C-130 incident on 1986
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2010, 16:42 
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Hello everyone

First I'd like to say that I'm a C-130 lover. I think it is the most incredible plane of any time. I've been looking for info about the C-130 in combat worldwide (hard task since C-130 had been widely deployed), and I found that during the Angola Bush War, on april 1986 a SAAF C-130 was hit by a FAPA-DAA Mig-23ML or Mig-21MF.

I've found some versions about this incident and I'd like you help me to clarify this matter.

According to Cuban Air-to-Air Victories the C-130 was hit with 23mm gunfire by a Mig-21MF

According to Mr Tom Cooper, on ACIG Forum a FAPA-DAA MiG-23ML flown by one of most experienced DAAFAR pilots in Angola intercepted a South African C-130 and fired two R-24R missiles. One missile missed; the other scored a direct hit at the left wing, right in between the two engines there. But, that missile failed to detonate.

According to Angolan and Russian sources this C-130 was lost in the incident, but according to Mr. Tom Cooper, the C-130 got back to one of forward airfields used by the SAAF in the then South-West Africa (now Namibia)

I'd like to know what was the fate of the C-130 involved in this incident. Pilot name, serial number, AFB name (if proceed). etc.

Thanks in advance.

Best regards

Miguel


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PostPosted: 28 Oct 2010, 16:55 
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The SAAF obtained seven C-130B in 1963 and all of these original seven C-130B were still on strength a short while ago.

The SAAF is the only Air Force not yet to have lost a C-130 due to any incident ie crash, shot down etc.
SAAF C/N
401 3724
402 3749
403 3750
404 3764
405 3765
406 3767
407 3769

There were other operaters flying C-130's over Angola so your bird could be one of theirs.


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PostPosted: 28 Oct 2010, 17:00 
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Thank you very much for your quick answer, W407594F

W407594F wrote:
There were other operaters flying C-130's over Angola so your bird could be one of theirs.

I didn't know this fact. Which operators were these.???


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PostPosted: 28 Oct 2010, 17:55 
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Angola themselves used C-130 their airline TAAG lost a L-100 c/n 4832 at Dondo June 1986

Also from your link for April it gives it as a L-100 belonging to TAAG so your pilot shot down an Angolan Airlines (TAAG) L-100 which is just the civillian version of the C-130. With allies like this who needs enemies.

Another C-130 was lost flying out of Cuito on 14 October 1987
This was L-100-30 c/n 4701

It did belong to SAFAIR at one time as ZS-JVM, but at the time of its lose it belonged to Zimex Aviation a Swiss Company flying from an MPLA controlled airport.
It took from Cuito and there was an explosion on number 3 engine and it crashed.

Another C-130 crash landed at Jamba in January 1988, flying in stuff for UNITA, this one belonged to Tepper Aviation. Tepper Aviation is supposed to be a front for the CIA.

Have alook through the link below for details it will not allow a link to the exact page.

http://www.aviation-safety.net


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PostPosted: 28 Oct 2010, 22:24 
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I must admit, when it comes to the C130.... im not the person to talk to, but a good friend of mine know almost everything about the c130's flying history.

Ill let him know about your question.

Expect a reply from Portamus within the next few days.

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PostPosted: 29 Oct 2010, 00:10 
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If one adds up all the Angolan and Cuban claims of SAAF aircraft they shot down the total comes to a multiple of the entire fleet of the SAAF. :^o

They made similar wild claims about destroying SA Army equipment too.
In one famous case they claimed to have destroyed seven G6 SP artillery pieces - at a time when only three pre-production prototypes existed!
All three were filmed and photographed by multiple independent news media having returned to SWA after the ceasefire in perfect working order.


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PostPosted: 29 Oct 2010, 00:44 
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W407594F wrote:
The SAAF is the only Air Force not yet to have lost a C-130 due to any incident ie crash, shot down etc.


RNZAF?

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PostPosted: 29 Oct 2010, 07:50 
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Roger the Dodger wrote:
If one adds up all the Angolan and Cuban claims of SAAF aircraft they shot down the total comes to a multiple of the entire fleet of the SAAF. :^o

They made similar wild claims about destroying SA Army equipment too.
In one famous case they claimed to have destroyed seven G6 SP artillery pieces - at a time when only three pre-production prototypes existed!
All three were filmed and photographed by multiple independent news media having returned to SWA after the ceasefire in perfect working order.


Tha'ts like when they claimed to have destroyed mor mirage IIIs than were in service with the SAAF.

Biggles


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PostPosted: 29 Oct 2010, 10:30 
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I had a newspaper cutting about this but unfortunately I can't find it. The aircraft you are talking about was an L-100 belonging to TAAG, D2 - THA.


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PostPosted: 29 Oct 2010, 10:41 
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Miguel wrote:
Hello everyone

First I'd like to say that I'm a C-130 lover. I think it is the most incredible plane of any time. I've been looking for info about the C-130 in combat worldwide (hard task since C-130 had been widely deployed), and I found that during the Angola Bush War, on april 1986 a SAAF C-130 was hit by a FAPA-DAA Mig-23ML or Mig-21MF.

I've found some versions about this incident and I'd like you help me to clarify this matter.

According to Cuban Air-to-Air Victories the C-130 was hit with 23mm gunfire by a Mig-21MF

According to Mr Tom Cooper, on ACIG Forum a FAPA-DAA MiG-23ML flown by one of most experienced DAAFAR pilots in Angola intercepted a South African C-130 and fired two R-24R missiles. One missile missed; the other scored a direct hit at the left wing, right in between the two engines there. But, that missile failed to detonate.

According to Angolan and Russian sources this C-130 was lost in the incident, but according to Mr. Tom Cooper, the C-130 got back to one of forward airfields used by the SAAF in the then South-West Africa (now Namibia)

I'd like to know what was the fate of the C-130 involved in this incident. Pilot name, serial number, AFB name (if proceed). etc.

Thanks in advance.

Best regards

Miguel


My father was the commander of the C-130 that they claim to have shot down on April 4th, 1986. If you can locate a copy of From Fledgling to Eagle (Dick Lord's book)... the story is in there... its called '28 Squadron 'Long Drop'' on page 374.

I can safely assure you that the aircraft was not shot down... as my father is alive and well today, but that the missile did indeed pass VERY close to the C-130, so close infact that the crew could smell the exhaust gases from the missile in the air conditioning system. My dad then made a radio transmission to the lead aircraft (he was flyin number 2 in the formo), says 'I'm going down!'.. meaning he was going to a lower, and safer altitude and they descended to 200 ft AGL. We can only assume the Angolans picked up the transmission and assumed it meant he was crashing. We have the news paper clipping from the 7th with the header 'SADF denies its plane shot by Angola'.

Pilots name- Major Adrian Woodley. I do not know where the drop was... in fact I dont even think my dad does anymore. Fate of a/c - recovered safely to AFB Rundu for an inspection and found no damage at all, then proceeded back to AFB Waterkloof.

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PostPosted: 29 Oct 2010, 11:45 
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Great stuff Portamus, certainly gives credibility to what the Cubans claimed. (ie it happened although maybe different results to what they thought.) Such is the nature of war and how people experience it.

However your newspaper clipping is not the one I refer to, so I suppose one would need to verify the date in question as if I recall correctly the TAAG one happened in June 1986. Then again it was long ago, so maybe my grey matter is playing tricks? It was a tiny article in "The Star" and it had TAAG in the title.


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PostPosted: 29 Oct 2010, 20:05 
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Thank you very much to all of you for your comments and answers.

Portamus, your father and the rest of the crew are very lucky guys.

Very good information. That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks again.

Just a detail more if you please. Serial number of that C-130???


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PostPosted: 01 Nov 2010, 13:49 
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Indeed they are.

I can give you further information having just spoken to my Old Man...

The missile was supposedly an SA-2, fired from a SAM batter commanded by someone from the Cuban/Angolan Air Force. This information was given to my Dad by Dick Lord a few months ago. There is still no real confirmation of the real events or what has really happened. Only the different descriptions from the parties involved. However, my old man is convinced to this day that it was a SA-2.

A/C serial was 401.

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PostPosted: 01 Nov 2010, 15:35 
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Portamus wrote:
I can give you further information having just spoken to my Old Man...

I'll be waiting.

Portamus wrote:
The missile was supposedly an SA-2

This data is very interesting. I had always read that it was an AA missile fired by a Mig-23 or a Mig-21, but that version I had never heard it. The SA-2 has a proximity fuse with a large distance to explode. It can be detonated by radio signal too.
Despite this, the simple fact that to see that massive missile passing near to your aircraft must be a terrible experience. I'm sure the C-130 was shaked.


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PostPosted: 01 Nov 2010, 15:42 
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I attended a EAA talk show where Col Piet Viviers who was the mission leader commander described the incident .

I recall him saying it was deep in Angola - further north than what was ever expected - he would not say more .


Last edited by miragemad on 01 Nov 2010, 15:44, edited 1 time in total.

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