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 Post subject: Re: G-car and K-car
PostPosted: 02 May 2010, 21:52 
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Joined: 03 May 2005, 08:40
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Location: Whangarei, New Zealand
Just off at a slight tangent here but why did the SAP select the letter "B" as their registration suffix? I mean everything else seems to make sense (apart from the old "R" for military).

G = Government
M = Military
B = ???

I really miss those Alo3's - used to see them flying around Johannesburg in the 90's when I was at school. One day they flew over our top rugby field particularly low and we all thought it would be a good idea to "moon" them... That until they flew lower and lower and were eventually probably less than 100 feet AGL and could see a member of the crew half-hanging out the door on the skid haranguing us!

We certainly didn't expect that and were kakking ourselves that they were going to land and bliksem us :lol:

Another strange incident involving a helicopter in the same area, the McDonalds at Woodmead had just been built - and we'd sat down to eat when the surrounding red dirt (hadn't been paved yet) started being kicked up violently. A SAP Bo 105 landed and the crew walked in, ordered and sat down then when they had finished, jumped back into the chopper and took off again.

Needless to say that really made my day! :D

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 Post subject: Re: G-car and K-car
PostPosted: 02 May 2010, 22:50 
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Joined: 19 Oct 2005, 12:39
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Location: United Kingdom
Just speculation

B= Beampte or Berede ?

Up to the 1960's the SAP Uniform branch was split in two halfs,

M/B = Mounted / Berede, the Mounted (Berde) were die Manne wat kan
or
F/V = Foot / Voot (ysterbaajties / iron coats)

They also wore different uniforms the Mounted chaps had riding breeches, boots etc and only wore their Sgt rank on the right arm, the Foot wore their Sgt rank on both arms, shoes etc

So the point being, the chaps who made this decision to have a B on the number plate would have been around in the days when the above were used and if an old Mounted man made the decision he possibly could say vehicles replaced his beloved horse so...B it is was then.

The laws books in Afrikaans have a lot of polisie beampte so the B could come from here as well.


In regards to the photo of the Alou, three of those Brownings are missing their flash hiders and look like they are all old WWII stocks type.


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 Post subject: Re: G-car and K-car
PostPosted: 03 May 2010, 14:05 
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Joined: 02 Nov 2009, 12:55
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Location: Pretoria
We had a similar discussion on the B numberplate thing. According to one of my commanders the people used to refer to the police as "bobbies" in the past. They still use the saying today" bobbies on beat". Well, this is what we belief the B stand for....we might be wrong :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: G-car and K-car
PostPosted: 03 May 2010, 21:58 
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Joined: 28 Nov 2007, 14:03
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Dear Bebe
I am very interested in the book you are doing on the Alo III especially since you also include foreign user of the type as well. There are lots of military books and publications that totally ignore the Rhaf and the SAAF and the tactics used during the bush war years. I have 2 publications 1) Chopper pilot - the adventures and experiences of Monster Wilkens who was one of the most experienced Alo III pilots in the SAAF. The book contains lots of Alo III photographs configured as gunships, troopers, etc. He served with the SA police and SAAF in Rhodesia, with the Portugese in Angola. It contains a outlay sketch of the Rhodesian G-Car as well as the K-Car and a list of each Alo III per serial number that served in the SAAF as well as a crash log per serial number. I do not know if the book is still available, maybe Dean can assist or help you to contact either Monster Wilkens himself or Winston Brent who was involved in the publication of this great book. The book was part of the African aviation series - No.6. I do not think that I am allowed to copy and publish any of the content of this book on the forum.

2) Winds of Destruction - The autobiography of a Rhodesian combat pilot - P.J.H. Petter-Bowyer (PB). he was very much involved in Chopper (Alo III) operations in the Rhaf as a pilot and master tactician. This book is still available through 30 Degrees South Publishers - Chris Cocks. They do have a website as well. MR. Petter-Bowyer (PB) live in England, so if you are able to contact him you might pop over for a visit and interview to help your book.

The Alo III was a great chopper and I do not think that it was used more extensively by any operator than the SAAF and the Rhaf. I will never forget the smell of kerosene, the sound of and Alo III at work and the sound of that 20mm gun firing.

Let us salute a great Chopper - long live the AloIII :smt023


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 Post subject: Re: G-car and K-car
PostPosted: 03 May 2010, 22:30 
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Joined: 30 Apr 2010, 10:00
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Thank you Buccanneer for your post
Alo 3 has been one of best helo in the world, that's right :smt023
In our book, we'll speak about every military user of Al3 and I'm decided to give several pages for SAAF and RhAF, and also Portuguese air force, three air forces who relied heavily on Alo 3 at war.
I knew the books you quoted, thank you whatever for these informations.
I won't hesitate to post questions in this forum, as far as encounter "mystery" about south african users.
Best regards from France :)


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 Post subject: Re: G-car and K-car
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013, 16:23 
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Joined: 15 Feb 2013, 15:46
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I have seen single, double and quad mounts for the Allouette. The single guns had wooden spade grips/trigger/safety produced locally, there is an example of the twin mount somewhere at Swartkops Museum (saw it there some ten - fifteen years ago) and a quad is on static display as per the earlier image. These are all in addition to the single 20mm cannon which seems to have replaced all MGs in the Allouettes by 1976 as I saw only 20mms from then on :) .


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 Post subject: Re: G-car and K-car
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013, 16:33 
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Joined: 30 Apr 2010, 10:00
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Thank you Peter for these informations :)
Best regards from France 8)


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 Post subject: Re: G-car and K-car
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2013, 15:24 
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Joined: 08 Feb 2009, 16:49
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 Post subject: Re: G-car and K-car
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2013, 16:03 
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Joined: 30 Apr 2010, 10:00
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Thank you Rafi096, a very nice pic :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: G-car and K-car
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019, 16:54 
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Joined: 21 Aug 2013, 11:21
Posts: 109
Location: Bury, England
bépé wrote:
Hi Paul,
I read about "dalmatian mounting" of 4 Browing on some G-cars : was it just a test ?
I also read that 2 SAAF Alo3 using 2 AS12 air to ground missiles in Angola, do you know about this use ?
I knew about Z-car, but would you confirm "B-cars" was for police (land forces ?) ground vehicules, please ?
Whatever, think you for your help :smt023
Best regards from France :P


The 4 x .303 brownings mounted on the Alouette III 'K' Car was known as the Dalmatian fit in Rhodesia and was used with great success. Photos of it below:

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: G-car and K-car
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019, 21:01 
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Joined: 03 May 2005, 08:40
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Interesting! Where is the chopper in the 3rd picture located?

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 Post subject: Re: G-car and K-car
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019, 22:25 
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Joined: 21 Aug 2013, 11:21
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Location: Bury, England
H1017412 wrote:
Interesting! Where is the chopper in the 3rd picture located?


I saw it at the SAAF museum at Swartkop, Pretoria. It was in one of the buildings away from the hangars.
Here is a front 3/4 view of it as found on wikimedia and another taken by Dave Harris - 22/09/2010:

Image

Image


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