The SAAF Forum

Discussion on the SAAF and other southern African air forces.
It is currently 19 Apr 2024, 05:42

All times are UTC + 2 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Aermacchi AM.3CM Bosbok
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2011, 17:28 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 14 Mar 2007, 16:57
Posts: 5443
Location: ILS RWY19, FACT (Cape Town)
I'm busy updating my data whilst doing some research on the Bosbok :D

What are TOKE markers & how do they get used. I understand the 68mm SNEB & smoke-rockets to designate targets, but I don't understand those TOKE cannisters :?:

Image
Image Source: Squadrons of the SAAF and their Aircraft - Steven McLean

Bosbok Serials: Anybody know anything about 932, 940, 941 & 952 :?:

920 - c/n2001 - ex I-TAAA, SAAF Museum port Elizabeth
921 - c/n2002 - ex I-TAAB, sold ZU-ACX
922 - c/n2003 - ex I-TAAC, sold ZS-WCX
923 - c/n2004 - w/o Potchefstroom 25.03.1980
924 - c/n2005 - w/o 1983
925 - c/n2006 - w/o Potchefstroom 12.09.1990

926 - c/n2007 - sold ZU-ADH
927 - c/n2008 - sold ZU-ADC
928 - c/n2009 - sold ZU-ADB, exported N8ME
929 - c/n2010 - w/o on take-off Bethlehem 14.11.1975
930 - c/n2011 - sold ZU-ACP
931 - c/n2012 - sold ZU-ADM
932 - c/n2013 -
933 - c/n2014 - sold ZU-ACY
934 - c/n2015 - w/o - during Operation Moduler, Lt Richard W. Glynn (pilot) and Cmdt JC du Randt (artillery co-ordinator), shot down South of the Lomba River, Angola, whilst on a night artillery spotting mission, presumably by a SA-8, 03.09.1987. Aircraft crashed killing both occupants.
935 - c/n2016 - w/o near Swartruggens 16.09.1975
936 - c/n2017 - sold, under restoration.
937 - c/n2018 - w/o near Johannesburg 03.08.1974
938 - c/n2019 - sold ZU-ACM
939 - c/n2020 - sold ZU-ADL, exported N340PE.
940 - c/n2021 -
941 - c/n2022 -
942 - c/n2023 - displayed at school in Potchefstroom, under restoration ZU-DTW.
943 - c/n2024 - sold ZU-ACZ
944 - c/n2025 - sold N7091K
945 - c/n2026 - w/o on take-off Alldays 17.01.1989
946 - c/n2027 - sold ZU-ACR, exported VH-ARV
947 - c/n2028 - sold, exported N165TP
948 - c/n2029 - on display as gate guard Potchefstroom
949 - c/n2030 - sold ZU-ADT, exported N949CM
950 - c/n2031 - w/o in Operational Area SWA 10.07.1982
951 - c/n2032 - sold ZU-ACS, exported VH-BTZ
952 - c/n2033 -
953 - c/n2034 - sold ZU-ADI
954 - c/n2035 - sold ZU-ADW w/o 07.02.1993
955 - c/n2036 - sold ZU-ADK
956 - c/n2037 - w/o in Operational Area SWA or Angola 14.04.1989
957 - c/n2038 - sold ZU-ADA
958 - c/n2039 - w/o near Eenhana 29.05.1981
959 - c/n2040 - SAAF Musuem Swartkop, registered as ZU-CXA.

Cheers

_________________
Brent Best


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2011, 19:54 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jul 2004, 13:06
Posts: 3360
Location: In .... S.E.A & M.E.N.A. et al
Toke Markers......

Typo for SMOKE Markers, used for FAC and Targeting.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2011, 20:01 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jul 2004, 13:06
Posts: 3360
Location: In .... S.E.A & M.E.N.A. et al
938...

February 1986, 42 Squadron, allocated to 98 Tactical Airfield Unit, Messina.

The 1st Bossie I flew in, spent many hours as 'OBS' during that deployement in 938.

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2011, 20:12 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 14 Mar 2007, 16:57
Posts: 5443
Location: ILS RWY19, FACT (Cape Town)
Spice wrote:
Typo for SMOKE Markers, used for FAC and Targeting.
Thanks Spice :smt023 That explains why my "google-fu" wasn't working :lol: :lol:

So the cannisters were smoke & the 68mm SNEB pods also carried smoke-rockets ... or was the Bossie cleared for 68mm HE :?:

I'm trying to puzzle out if the attack on a 23mm AA by Captain Danie Laubscher, was done using smoke rockets or HE .. reading his account in Honoris Crux II by At van Wyk, it isn't clear what he used :?:

Cheers

_________________
Brent Best


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2011, 21:28 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2011, 14:21
Posts: 2579
I have had a look at my copy of this book and on page 53, second last paragraph:-

"Sonder om verder tyd te verspil het hy besluit om die lugafweer met sy eie 68mm vuurpyle aan te val". Sounds like a 68mm unguided SNEB. Whether it was a single shot or the more usual volley is not clear. My money would be on the volley!

_________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tallyho2015/albums


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2011, 21:43 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 14 Mar 2007, 16:57
Posts: 5443
Location: ILS RWY19, FACT (Cape Town)
Yip, 68mm SNEB for sure ... smoke or HE though :?:

He tells of marking the target for the Mirage's ... twice .. and they missed with bombs... twice. Running low on fuel he lands near the target, in a shauna where the artillery was deployed, re-fuels & re-arms & then goes out again. With the situation on the ground still unchanged, he fires his 68mm rockets.

To be or not to be ... Smoke or HE .. :?:

_________________
Brent Best


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2011, 21:48 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 14 Mar 2007, 16:57
Posts: 5443
Location: ILS RWY19, FACT (Cape Town)
For the benefit of everybody, here's the text from "Honoris Crux II" by At van Wyk.

"Honoris Cux II" by At van Wyk wrote:
Met Bosbok en Ratel
Operasie Protea teen Swapo in Angola het oor etlike dae gestrek, van 24 Augustus tot 3 September 1981. Verskeie teikens is aangeval. Sommige gelyktydig. In die loop daarvan het een Lugmagman, ‘n lid van die Staande Mag en twee dienspligtiges die Honoris Crux verwerf.

Kapt. Daniel Jacob (Danie) Laubscber (31) is die seun van mnr. en mev. Gert Laubscher van Hartbeesfontein. Hy is getroud met Susan van Zyl en hulle het een seuntjie, Jaco. Op 24 Augustus 1981 het hy ‘n taak verrig waarvoor sy ligte en stadige Bosbok nie bedoel is nie. Die sukses wat hy behaal het, het nie slegs lewensverlies aan eie kant voorkom nie, maar grootliks daartoe bygedra dat `n Swapobasis vernietig is.

Dit het gebeur gedurende die eerste dag se aanval op ‘n basis by Xangongo, noordwes van Ngiva, aan die Kunenerivier.

Die Bosbok is ‘n ligte skroefaangedrewe vliegtuig met twee sitplekke agtermekaar en spesiaal ontwerp en gebou vir slagveldverkenning. Hy is stadig, met ‘n minimum snelheid van 40 myl per uur en ‘n maksimum van 120 op ‘n gelyk vlug, maar hy het die voordeel dat hy van ‘n baie kort aanloopbaan af kan opereer — enige gelyk stuk grond is goed genoeg. Hy kan ‘n hoogte van 20 000 voet haal, maar opereer normaalweg baie laer.

“Jy beweeg met jou Bosbok saam met die grondtroepe,” sê Danie. “Jy’s nooit voor hulle nie, want dan is jy oor die teikengebied. Soos wat die troepe vorentoe skuif, beweeg jy saam en jy beheer eintlik die opmars en die geveg uit die lug uit. Ek het ‘n artillerie-offisier, kapt. Tinus van Rensburg, op die agterste sitplek gehad, en hy het die teikeninformasie aan die manne by die kanonne gegee. Hy moet kyk waar die skote val en korreksies na die teiken toe gee indien nodig. As vlieënier moes ek verskeie take verrig. Terselfdertyd het ek verkenning gedoen deur te bepaal waar die vyandelike vuur vandaan kom en, veral, waar die lugafweer is. Dan het ek ook voorste lugbeheer vir die Mirages gedoen deur die lugafweerstellings met rookvuurpyle vir hulle te merk.”

Daardie dag met die aanval op Xangongo het die grondtroepe uit verskillende groepe bestaan, elk met sy eie Bosbok. Danie se groep moes van die suide af na die aanloopbaan opruk. Om dit te doen, moes hulle met hulle Ratels ‘n opge­ boude pad oorsteek wat noord-suid uit Xangongo loop.

“Die aanloopbaan het dáár gelê, en hiersó was die pad, met die Ratels op hierdie punt. Hulle moet oor die pad, maar sodra hulle opklim — die pad was hoog opgebou — dan is daar ‘n 23 mm-lugafweerkanon wat van die aanloopbaan se kant af op hulle skiet, so van 500 meter af. Die Ratels kon nie óm gaan nie, want dan sou hulle deurmekaar raak met een van ons ander groepe. Hulle is toe deur die 23’s daar vasgepen.”

“Toe’t ons eers probeer om met kanonne die teiken uit te haal, maar dis ‘n bietjie moeilik om met ‘n kanon so ‘n klein teiken raak te skiet. Dit vat redelik tyd, jy weet, en ‘n bietjie geluk ook. Toe’t ons Mirages aangevra, en ek het die teiken met rookvuurpyle gemerk. Jy merk dit en verduidelik vir die ou waar die teiken van die rook af is, dat hy dit kan skiet.”

Die Mirages het gekom, geduik en geskiet, maar dit was mis. Danie het die teiken ‘n tweede keer gemerk, maar ook die tweede aanval was onsuksesvol, en toe raak sy brandstof op. In die teikengebied was ‘n sjona, waar die kanonne op­ gestel was, en daar het hy gaan sit om brandstof en ammunisie in te neem. Hy het opgestyg, na die gevegsone terug- gekeer en gevind dat die lugafweer steeds op die grondtroepe skiet. Sonder om verder tyd te verspil, het hy besluit om die lugafweer met sy eie 68 mm-vuurpyle aan te vat. Hy vertel:

“Toe’s ek weer in die lug en ons ouens was nog vas. Hulle kon steeds nie oor die pad gaan nie. Ek besluit toe om heelwat laer te duik, na omtrent 6 000 voet toe, om akkurater te kan skiet.”

“Vanuit die lug is so ‘n stelling maar ‘n vuurhoutjiekolletjie. Die sirkel - dis so ‘n sirkel met ‘n loopgraaf wat na die hoogkompleks toe loop - is maar soos die helfte van hierdie kamer, met die kanon wat dáár opgestel is, die 23 mm. Ek kon nie die kanon sien nie, maar net die flitse soos hulle op ons geskiet het.”

“Ek kan onthou ek het vir die ou, die artillerie-offisier, agter my gesê ‘Ons moet nou maar vashou, hier is ‘n klomp goed wat rondtrek.’ Ek kon die donker kol sien, of die gat waarvandaan hy geskiet het. Jy mik maar vir die gat as jy skiet, en toe’s dit toevallig raak.”

Na daardie raakskoot het die Ratels oor die pad gerol en teen laat namiddag was die aanloopbaan in bulle besit en die geveg om Xangongo verby.

Daardie nag het die manne met die Ratels in Xangongo geslaap, en dit bring ons by die verhaal van Johan Grove, Andries Helm en Gerrit Burgers.

Cheers

_________________
Brent Best


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2011, 22:06 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 14 Mar 2007, 16:57
Posts: 5443
Location: ILS RWY19, FACT (Cape Town)
According to the SAAF at War by Bouwer & Louw:
Quote:
Capt Danie Laubscher's Bosbok parked for refuelling on a shona (dry pan). Capt Laubscher was awarded the Honoris Crux during this operation. After several unsuccessful attempts to neutralise a particular anti-aircraft emplacement which was hampering the Army's advance, Capt Laubscher dived down low on the target to make sure it was effectively marked with his 68-mm smoke rockets. Despite being fired at by 23-mm anti-aircraft cannon, he actually wiped out the site with his own marker rockets. the photo above shows the destroyed anti-aircraft emplacement.)

So .. that then would be a kill with the 68mm smoke rockets :smt023

Here is Capt Daniel Laubscher.
Image
Image Source: Honoris Crux II by At van Wyk

_________________
Brent Best


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2011, 00:48 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 03 May 2005, 08:40
Posts: 3457
Location: Whangarei, New Zealand
Heh, one can get some "toke" marks on your fingers if not careful ;)

_________________
A plan is simply a basis for change.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2011, 03:55 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jul 2004, 13:06
Posts: 3360
Location: In .... S.E.A & M.E.N.A. et al
68mm HE

The smoke markers may then have been used. The other way we also refferd to smoke, would have been to fire a HE 'for effect' to mark the impact, the subsequent explosion would caise some smoke and dust, - aka 'smoke'

:wink:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2011, 13:48 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2004, 17:19
Posts: 8397
Danie has written a very detailed account of this action, including providing photos, for my book.

Herewith an extract:
Quote:
Sometime during the dive I decided that I was probably as close as I would like to be and pulled the trigger. 1 x smoke rocket streaked to the target.


Quote:
On reaching the specific site they found the gunner sitting in his chair with a 68mm hole through him where my smoke rocket hit.


From his intro, the smoke rockets we also 68mm.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2011, 14:45 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2011, 14:21
Posts: 2579
Dean wrote:
Danie has written a very detailed account of this action, including providing photos, for my book.

Well done on the research and providing us with the facts. When is your book due for release?

Keep up the good work!

_________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tallyho2015/albums


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2011, 14:48 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 14 Mar 2007, 16:57
Posts: 5443
Location: ILS RWY19, FACT (Cape Town)
Awesome Dean, one can't get more reliable intel than that ... 68mm smoke rockets it was then :smt023

Does he give a tail number for his Bosbok ?

_________________
Brent Best


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 2 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group