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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2020, 10:53 
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Spotted I think 8x HAWKS that just flew over the school grounds I teach at.

And PC7's with another aircraft.

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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2020, 11:38 
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was in Centurion earlier for a meeting.

spotted the following:

Transport formation 1X Dak, 2X Casa, 2x Cessna
Gripen
Choppers

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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2020, 11:53 
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Mars wrote:
Not sure I agree on this point, the SAAF never stopped and started; the same structures, ranks, uniforms, aircraft, Squadrons were all used. There is no subjectivity.

If this was a company we were talking about and it was registered on 1 Feb 1920, no one would or could argue the point that the company was not 100 years old.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing against continuity. I believe all the above, plus the precedent set, means that it should be assumed as default with an overt and explicit step needed to break that continuity. I'm just pointing out that our arguments need to be a lot stronger than assumptions.

Companies are actually a good analogy here, with mergers, amalgamations, and acquisitions. When that happens the determinant of which company's history is maintained is entirely subjective and decided by the board of directors at the time. Old brands are resurrected and their history reclaimed despite being entirely different organisations. In other cases the executive team and nearly everything remains the same, but the company being merged/acquired/etc ceases to exist in a historical sense.

For instance, Ansys bought out Parsec some time ago, but maintained Parsec as a subsidiary which kept its brand, exec team, offices, etc. Some years later, Ansys renamed to Etion and changed the company structure from a holding firm with subsidiaries to an integrated firm with divisions. Logically, Parsec no longer exists now, it would make no sense to celebrate its anniversaries, even though it's still pretty much the same structure.

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The issue here is that SAAF is not ignoring that its a 100 years, but it is not acknowledging it either.

That's a great point. It's sort of accurate: The problem is that this is not a new fight, and there have been senior military leaders and politicians refusing to accept the continuity of the SAAF, SAN, and SA Army for years now. That's why the SA Army did not commemorate its own centenary. What's changed is that they finally have the upper hand over those who've been resisting them.


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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2020, 15:48 
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SAAF Choppers

https://www.facebook.com/spitfirerestoration/videos/1120421228302323/

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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2020, 18:08 
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My apologies. It was actually 4x gripen and 4x hawk.

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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2020, 19:10 
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Pictures, we want PICTURES!

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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2020, 20:15 
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Dean wrote:
Pictures, we want PICTURES!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

We are all cracking under the tension.

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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2020, 20:54 
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Darren wrote:
Mars wrote:
Not sure I agree on this point, the SAAF never stopped and started; the same structures, ranks, uniforms, aircraft, Squadrons were all used. There is no subjectivity.

If this was a company we were talking about and it was registered on 1 Feb 1920, no one would or could argue the point that the company was not 100 years old.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing against continuity. I believe all the above, plus the precedent set, means that it should be assumed as default with an overt and explicit step needed to break that continuity. I'm just pointing out that our arguments need to be a lot stronger than assumptions.

Companies are actually a good analogy here, with mergers, amalgamations, and acquisitions. When that happens the determinant of which company's history is maintained is entirely subjective and decided by the board of directors at the time. Old brands are resurrected and their history reclaimed despite being entirely different organisations. In other cases the executive team and nearly everything remains the same, but the company being merged/acquired/etc ceases to exist in a historical sense.

For instance, Ansys bought out Parsec some time ago, but maintained Parsec as a subsidiary which kept its brand, exec team, offices, etc. Some years later, Ansys renamed to Etion and changed the company structure from a holding firm with subsidiaries to an integrated firm with divisions. Logically, Parsec no longer exists now, it would make no sense to celebrate its anniversaries, even though it's still pretty much the same structure.


My reason for using companies as an example, is that companies can never be disassociated from their history despite the fact they can be changed in many different ways, and represent different things at different times. In this case I think we can both agree that marketing can be blamed for this :lol: (IT is off the hook for now).

The crux of this discussion though is how far can a narrative be bent until it becomes detached from reality. Secondly what message is being sent to veterans, those currently enlisted as well as taxpayers. Soldiers are not politicians.

Darren wrote:
Mars wrote:
The issue here is that SAAF is not ignoring that its a 100 years, but it is not acknowledging it either.

That's a great point. It's sort of accurate: The problem is that this is not a new fight, and there have been senior military leaders and politicians refusing to accept the continuity of the SAAF, SAN, and SA Army for years now. That's why the SA Army did not commemorate its own centenary. What's changed is that they finally have the upper hand over those who've been resisting them.


I was wondering why we missed the Army's centenary.

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2020, 00:02 
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Jolley Roger wrote:
I have seen this image on FB a couple of times, guess if the SAAf won't do it someone else will


Image


I like that! It should read its, not "it's" though.

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2020, 12:20 
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Speech was disappointing.

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2020, 12:47 
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Just read it myself, but there is a lot of nuance to be read into it, so will require some re-reading.

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2020, 13:30 
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Hi Dean

Is it available online yet?

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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2020, 07:33 
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Happy Birthday South African Air Force! The second oldest Commonwealth air force, accepted as having been formed on 1 Feb 1920! The SAAF has a lot to be proud of. It is only by recognising our past that we can truly define our future.

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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2020, 17:54 
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Well done 28 Sqn and 22 Sqn!!! =D> =D> =D>

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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2020, 18:25 
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Happy 100 years SAAF!!! =D> =D> =D>

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