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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2019, 14:06 
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Stefaan wrote:
Hi Mamba.
Cobus saw that Mig that had the fireball emerge beyond the fireball. That pilot landed and I believe is in contact with Lionel doing his book on the Air war.
The fireball was the drop tank exploding as it left the a/c.
Lets wait till Lionel Reids book comes out to find out in detail as to what happened. He is in direct contact with the pilots.


That book will certainly be an interesting read! If it disproves something with substantiated evidence it will certainly be something. I like the fact that pilots from both sides are involved.

I just find it very strange that they would credit Rankin the kill if Toerien did in fact see that the Mig survived the explosion. Perhaps the gun camera film is better proof than an unsubstantiated mk.1 eyeball? If information acquired later proved the wing man made it back to base, then certainly they could have found out about the Mig leader too?

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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2019, 10:01 
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MiG-23 vs Mirage F1: When Cuban-flown Angolan Floggers clashed with South African Mirages

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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2019, 22:26 
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One thing I've noticed in the First / Second MiG kill camera pictures is the difference in quality. Was this just circumstantial or was there a change to gun camera technology between 1981 and 1983?

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PostPosted: 12 Mar 2019, 11:05 
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H1017412 wrote:
One thing I've noticed in the First / Second MiG kill camera pictures is the difference in quality. Was this just circumstantial or was there a change to gun camera technology between 1981 and 1983?


Old film versus fresh new film?


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2019, 23:34 
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Dean, the gun camera footage you show is the wrong way around. Your "1st" is the second kill. This error is frequently made from people copying Dick Lords initial error.

Stefaan is correct, the radio messages attributed by the South Africans for the 1st MiG was actually the second MiG, both returned to base.

The F1-AZ v Mi-8 was carried out by an F1-CZ of 3 SQN.


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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 13:30 
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Paul wrote:
Dean, the gun camera footage you show is the wrong way around. Your "1st" is the second kill. This error is frequently made from people copying Dick Lords initial error.

Stefaan is correct, the radio messages attributed by the South Africans for the 1st MiG was actually the second MiG, both returned to base.


Very glad Dean get's in trouble for my mistake! :lol: I will correct it. :smt023 The footage does actually better match the description of events when the footage is swapped around.

mamba wrote:
Kill no.1:
Image

Kill no2:
Image


What I still don't understand is that after all this time, now the story emerges that the second Mig survived? More than 30 years later!? If it is indeed true that there was proof that the second Mig survived, why still credit it? Was the propaganda train too far from station by then to recall it? If the wing man didn't see it as a kill, that would surely have come up during the return to base or debrief after the flight?

Information gathered later on conclusively proving otherwise I can perhaps understand. That could take a while to obtain which means by then there was probably already press pieces published and so on. That would make it much more difficult to recall. Yet then surely it would have got mentioned in books or articles? There are plenty such pieces which was written long after the war ended and the old government disbanded.

It just does not seem to make sense to me... Perhaps the reason is that they did not think the information was conclusive enough to warrant the withdrawal of the kill, i.e disprove the pilot's statement and his gun camera footage conclusively.

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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 20:53 
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mamba wrote:
Very glad Dean get's in trouble for my mistake! :lol: I will correct it. :smt023 The footage does actually better match the description of events when the footage is swapped around.



It's an age thing :oops: Anyway, someone needs to keep Dean on his toes. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 21:28 
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:-"

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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 22:05 
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:lol:
Dean wrote:
:-"


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