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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2017, 11:20 
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Some confusion here then because this article states 1800 Sea Axe. Guess we will just have to wait and see.

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/articl ... ep_id:4136

"Meanwhile, naval news website “navaltoday.com” has reported that the designs chosen for the SAN’s new offshore patrol vessels and inshore patrol vessels are the Damen 1800 Sea Axe and FCS 5009 respectively. The SAN will acquire these vessels under Project Biro, and Damen Shipyards Cape Town was announced as the preferred bidder at the same time as the Southern African Shipyards announcement was made.
The 1800 Sea Axe is 85 m in length, has a beam of 13.7 m, a crew of 46 and a maximum speed of 26 kts. The FCS 5009 is 51.25 m long, has a beam of 10.10 m and a core crew of just eight. Its maximum speed is again 26 kts. Each FCS 5009 can carry two interceptor boats, which can reach speeds in excess of 50 kts. Again, Armscor requires a local content level of 60%."


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2017, 11:39 
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Lots of confusion and uncertainty - all because we have a paranoid government who want everything to be Sooper Seekrit!


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2017, 14:26 
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Weapons for IPV and OPV?

What type of helicopter for OPV?


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2017, 15:43 
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I personally don't like that straight bow design. It just looks ugly and spoils the lines of a otherwise fine looking vessel. A more traditional bow would look nice. Having said that it has purpose though. Just my 2c... :roll:


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2017, 19:14 
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C-130 wrote:
Weapons for IPV and OPV?

What type of helicopter for OPV?

My guesses - given what we know about the hulls, the ships' roles and the types of weapons available locally...

OPV 76mm main gun amd probably 20mm Rogue mounts secondary. The helicopter will probably be Oryx or Lynx, depending on the mission. Might even have a UAV too. Lynx might be used quite rarely simply because the ships will be based in Durban while the Lynx are in the Cape, consequently we might even see the BK117 or its successor on board the OPVs.

IPV 20mm Rogue main gun with 12.7mm Rogue secondary. IMHO 20mm is a bit light, a 35mm would be better.

The boats on both types might also have a 12.7mm or 7.62mm MG


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2017, 20:33 
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Roger the Dodger wrote:
C-130 wrote:
Weapons for IPV and OPV?

What type of helicopter for OPV?

My guesses - given what we know about the hulls, the ships' roles and the types of weapons available locally...

OPV 76mm main gun amd probably 20mm Rogue mounts secondary. The helicopter will probably be Oryx or Lynx, depending on the mission. Might even have a UAV too. Lynx might be used quite rarely simply because the ships will be based in Durban while the Lynx are in the Cape, consequently we might even see the BK117 or its successor on board the OPVs.

IPV 20mm Rogue main gun with 12.7mm Rogue secondary. IMHO 20mm is a bit light, a 35mm would be better.

The boats on both types might also have a 12.7mm or 7.62mm MG


You reckon there'll be a successor to the BK117?


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2017, 21:38 
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Jean Racine wrote:
You reckon there'll be a successor to the BK117?


Surely the A109 - it seems they've got the required emergency float installation sorted.
It might actually be a better maritime helicopter than inland, it seems to struggle in hot and high conditions, so sea-level could be a happier environment for it.


Last edited by Roger the Dodger on 28 Feb 2017, 12:44, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2017, 09:14 
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I read somewhere (can't remember) that the Portnet Pilot A109's are a bit weedy and underpowered for the strong winds frequently encountered along our coastline. Otherwise a nice chopper.


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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2017, 10:11 
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Probably be "fitted for but not with" helicopter


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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2017, 12:01 
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I agree with C-130. Will be fitted for but not with helicopter. If really needed they can embark Oryx, Lynx or A109. No need to purchase new helicopters. They could go the UAV route though. Remember the navy trialled the Schiebel Camcopter S-100 on the SAS Protea… http://www.naval-technology.com/news/ne ... vy-4705531

In terms of armament for the OPV, does it even need a 76mm? It’s a bit overkill unless they just take the units from the Warriors when they’re decommissioned. Surely a remotely operated 20-25mm is sufficient for the intended mission of these vessels? Have a look at the Protector-class OPVs that the Royal New Zealand Navy operate. They don’t have much in the way of armament, just a stabalised 25mm Rafael Typhoon and two 50 cals. A fishing vessel will still think twice about fleeing when a few 25mm shells hit the water near it.

The main deterrent is continuous presence and surveillance, as well as an efficient and capable boarding team.


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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2017, 12:53 
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Even the 30mm as on the Badgers would probably be a good choice. Though the 35mm DPG (in a single mount, not double as on the frigates) would give it a more useful reach and punch, and a useful anti-aircraft capability too. Given that we have only four frigates I can imagine that the OPVs will need to have a reasonable combat capability, rather than being only a "coast guard" patrol craft, a "corvette light" role, if the smelly stuff hits the rotary air mover.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2017, 21:49 
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Well well well. Is this an error or have we just learned something new regarding Biro. Check out the fourth paragraph from the bottom in the following article:

http://www.navy.mil.za/archive/1702/170 ... rticle.htm

"A memorandum of understanding was signed on 11 March 2017 by representatives of Denel and ThyssenKrupp causing Project BIRO into effect. Project BIRO is a project that will manufacture ships for the South African Navy specifically inshore patrol vessels in Naval Base Simons Town East Dockyard."


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PostPosted: 30 Mar 2017, 14:23 
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Not sure about that link (links to a Ex GH article), but it is an error. The Denel/ThyssenKrupp agreement is to support the frigates and submarines.

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PostPosted: 30 Mar 2017, 14:49 
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Dean wrote:
Not sure about that link (links to a Ex GH article), but it is an error. The Denel/ThyssenKrupp agreement is to support the frigates and submarines.


Has to be a mistake. Doesn't make any sense plus Damen is the preferred bidder. In addition there would be no space to build vessels while the frigates are upgraded and other civilian vessels are in the drydock.


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PostPosted: 30 Mar 2017, 14:52 
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Durbanite wrote:
Dean wrote:
Not sure about that link (links to a Ex GH article), but it is an error. The Denel/ThyssenKrupp agreement is to support the frigates and submarines.


Has to be a mistake. Doesn't make any sense plus Damen is the preferred bidder. In addition there would be no space to build vessels while the frigates are upgraded and other civilian vessels are in the drydock.


It's "amateur hour" at the Navy's News department...


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