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PostPosted: 25 Sep 2015, 23:53 
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Yes, but i also want to say this
just like when saaf got the vip panes i said dont take me too too seriously and predicting is a hobby. I dont know everything! its why I come here. My wife is wrong, but ill let her think im Him :wink:

what i do any econimist can do. forecasting isnt a brightspark thing. im fanatical about south africa and militayr things so my forecasting goes a little deeper. I respect you "experts" and my fiasco forecasting was only to proove i wasnt , well smoking rocks. please foregive the outbursts elswhere. and to the two members particular i had a beef with. It wasnt you, it was the propaganda i had a problem with. Please please keep contributing....just not that stuff :smt023
watch the movie big short! like brink show, lots to see, holy woodified. but they knew...its not hard, if you look. not brightspark moments. i want to go back to asking questions. Krem, a simple no not seen would have been cool? you are tight with marias from what i recall, and so i understand. just wanted to say this is still an international forum :smt023

best wishes to all. thanks again for an amazing forum


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PostPosted: 02 Oct 2015, 16:54 
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Charles Forrester, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
30 September 2015
Quote:
Cost of Mistral re-sale to French taxpayer revealed

rance's Senate released a report on 29 September outlining the cost to the French government and industry of the failed sale of the Mistral-class amphibious assault vessels to Russia.

Should the sale of the vessels to Egypt proceed, the French government is expected to see a shortfall of between EUR200 million (USD200 million) and EUR250 million as a result of the refund to Russia over the cancelled delivery.

French industry will also face some losses under the cancellation, with uninsured expenses such as berthing and maintenance fees, removal of Russian equipment, as well as lost profits, being in the region of EUR90-146 million.

It is expected that the sale of the vessels will go ahead, with delivery of the former vessels Vladivostok and Sevastopol taking place in 2016.

The sale of the vessels to Egypt was announced on 23 September, following the cancellation of the contract between Russia and France for the vessels in August. France agreed to return EUR950 million to Russia on 3 September and took ownership of the vessels as a result of the contract termination.

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PostPosted: 02 Oct 2015, 19:50 
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Dean wrote:
Charles Forrester, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
30 September 2015
Quote:
Cost of Mistral re-sale to French taxpayer revealed

rance's Senate released a report on 29 September outlining the cost to the French government and industry of the failed sale of the Mistral-class amphibious assault vessels to Russia.

Should the sale of the vessels to Egypt proceed, the French government is expected to see a shortfall of between EUR200 million (USD200 million) and EUR250 million as a result of the refund to Russia over the cancelled delivery.

French industry will also face some losses under the cancellation, with uninsured expenses such as berthing and maintenance fees, removal of Russian equipment, as well as lost profits, being in the region of EUR90-146 million.

It is expected that the sale of the vessels will go ahead, with delivery of the former vessels Vladivostok and Sevastopol taking place in 2016.

The sale of the vessels to Egypt was announced on 23 September, following the cancellation of the contract between Russia and France for the vessels in August. France agreed to return EUR950 million to Russia on 3 September and took ownership of the vessels as a result of the contract termination.


As I and others said, France was always going to lose by cancelling the deal. Ironic that Egypt has gained in a three-way deal involving some Gulf states, Russia and France. The sooner some decision-makers in the West realise the Cold War is over the better. Putin is a thug, but countering him using the Cold War paradigm is fighting yesterday's war.


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PostPosted: 02 Oct 2015, 22:41 
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I always love reading your posts Jean. I agree on what you say but also disagree on somethings. Im sure you know that. Yes Jean is correct...ish imho. thank you again for participating in a very tough discussion. looking forward to all your posts as usual


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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2015, 17:57 
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Quote:
France Russia Mistral Deal 2015: Egypt's Helicopters Won't Be Delivered Until Russian Equipment Dismantled, Rostec Says

Russian aircraft makers will not build helicopters for Egypt's recently purchased Mistral aircraft carriers until Russia's
equipment is dismantled from the ships, the head of Rostec, a Russian state-owned corporation that builds military
equipment, said Monday. The pair of Mistrals sold to Egypt by France were initially intended for Russia and needed to
have their equipment disassembled prior to any deals, Russian state-owned news agency Tass reported. "Egypt has
not yet made the request because our equipment has not been dismantled yet from the Mistrals," Sergey Chemezov,
head of Rostec, said at a Dubai air show Monday.

"As soon as the work is over, we’ll be able to offer both our equipment and our helicopters." The Mistral warships were
built for Russia by a French manufacturer following a deal made by the two governments in 2011. The sale of the
Mistrals would have been the first arms deal between Russia and a Western power in history. Following Russia’s
annexation of the Crimean peninsula and reported armed support for pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine, French
President Francois Hollande cancelled the deal in 2014. France struggled to find a buyer for over a year until Egypt
bought both of the ships in a $1 billion deal in September. France refunded Russia around $1 billion for cancellation of
the deal.

Russia offered to outfit the Mistrals with helicopters and electronic equipment shortly after Egypt announced the
purchase. "Russia will be, if you want, a subcontractor who will supply the missing equipment without which the
Mistral warships are just a tin can -- and of course, all the helicopters,” Kremlin Chief of Staff Sergei Ivanov said in
October, as reported by Russian news agency Sputnik International. The sale of helicopters and electronics to Egypt
could amount to $1 billion in revenue for Russia, he said.

Source : ibtimes

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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2015, 14:56 
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I've been following this closely, but of course we will first have to wait and see if they are able to make the sale to the Egyptians eventually. From what I understand, the sizes of the hangars were one of the required Russian modifications specifically for the Kamovs, so once the Egyptians start evaluating potential helicopters, the Kamov is probably going to be a pretty strong contender. It will be quite a coup for the Russians if it does come off: So, not only did they get their money back and learned a thing or two about shipbuilding, but they may gain a rather big helicopter order out of it. Probably not what NATO and the French had in mind when they decided to boycott the sale.


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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2015, 23:05 
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I try to stay away but mfezi......you made me crack up so much! I love that post!


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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2015, 01:56 
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Mfezi, people here respect you. I can't have that. Past beefs and all. What I like and would love is you to continue your opinion on matters related to the east. I believe it's needed as media is set in its ways. Maybe also indulge more as per your expertis, not everyone can have a gut feeling :smt023 but of course I'm not pressuring you. Thank you very much regardless on some very factual posts, showing both sides, and no bias. All the best wishes. Mick


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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2015, 22:55 
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Guys I want to remind you, not because I'm smart or better, but I started forecasting things only to provoke I wasn't crazy. Only to prove there is more behind the scenes than what we read. Believe me when I say I'm batting 90 out of 100..... Look into those things I've mentioned despite what you think of me. I'm not a troll. Just a seeker of truth. That has some basic knowledge.....forget the other go says then, how could I know this http://en.dcnsgroup.com/news/dcns-will- ... tian-navy/. The answer is because I ask questions :smt023 ask ask ask


Worst case egypt buys them...like i said, but id prefer sa. they wont be sunk, id prefer russia to get the ships not the money as it will hurt france more than you know. sanctions has nothing to do with this deal
Look at the dates, you know I've made other forecasts, way before it's public. I'm not trying to big myself up. I'm trying to make you look [-o< :smt023


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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2015, 03:04 
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What I really want to say is ask questions.... And also, as much as we miss Eugene, we forget people like mfezi, leading edge, boertjie, romeo , baler it,......well I could go on and on. The forum is great and dean you do an amazing job [-o< Let's all as a populous ask more and accept less. And remember who our members are :wink:


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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2016, 07:51 
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We don't know the value of the deal yet, but it seems the Egyptians did indeed order Kamovs from Russia - quite a coup for the Russians in the end...

From FlightGlobal, 4 Jan 2016:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... rs-420479/

Quote:
Egyptian navy buys 46 Ka-52K attack helicopters

Egypt is to acquire 46 navalised Kamov Ka-52K attack helicopters to equip its new French-built Mistral-class amphibious assault ships.

According to Kamov parent Russian Helicopters, the deal with Cairo has been signed via Russia’s Rosoboronexport arms export agency.

Writing in the latest issue of its corporate magazine, Russian Helicopters chief executive Alexander Mikheev says despite the “challenging environment” for overseas sales, it was still able to bring in new business.

These include “a major contract” “signed with Egypt by Rosoboronexport for 46 Ka-52 Alligators”.

No delivery timeframe has been released, however, although Egypt is likely to receive the two helicopter carriers by mid-year.

The naval variant of the twin Klimov VK-2500-powered Ka-52 features folding coaxial rotors and stub-wings.


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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2016, 14:25 
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So to recap: Moscow got its money back, acquired additional ship-building capabilities and sold 46 Kamovs?

Some punitive measure!


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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2018, 14:36 
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Pravda.Ru
Quote:
Russia gives up on helicopter carriers

On August 20, Russia's Minister for Industry and Trade, Denis Manturov, said that Russia would not be building its own helicopter carriers. However, in June of this year, deputy commander-in-chief of the Navy for armament, Vice-Admiral Viktor Bursuk, said that Russian helicopter carriers would be built after 2020. "We will have these ships, they are included in the ship-building program, and they will be built during the second stage of the implementation of the program - after 2020," Bursuk said a few months ago.

Even earlier, Russian ship-builders unveiled a model of the Russian helicopter carrying vessel. The project was called "Priboi." After the presentation, it was reported that Russia would build two of such vessels for the price of 40 billion roubles each.

The topic of Mistral helicopter carriers has been under debate since the time when Russia signed the relevant contract with France in 2011. In 2015, France terminated the deal because of the crisis in Ukraine, even though two vessels had been built by that time. Russian navy men were undergoing training on one of them. In the long run, the French managed to sell those two vessels to Egypt.

Why is Russia having so much hassle because of helicopter carriers? Director of the Center for Strategic Studies, Ivan Konovalov, said in an interview with Pravda.Ru that Mistral ships are referred to as "the ship of the projection of power" in France. In other words, these ships are designed for military operations in remote areas far from homeland.

"For France, this is still essential, because France has a huge zone of influence in Africa, its former colonies. French troops travel to Africa on a regular basis, but why would Russia need this class of vessels?" the expert wondered.

"Russian concluded the deal for those two Mistral ships for political reasons in the first place. First of all, Moscow wanted the world to see that Russia was ready for large-scale cooperation in defense, to conclude multi billion-dollar contracts with NATO countries. Secondly, then president of France Nicolas Sarkozy positioned himself as a great friend of Russia.

In 2008, he contributed to the peace process in the Caucasus. Russia ended the conflict with Georgia without any significant political losses largely owing to France," Ivan Konovalov said. In general, one can see that Russia has big doubts about the need to build helicopter carriers for its navy. The project is expensive, plus one does not know whether the Russian Navy needs vessels of this class.

However, officials make contradictory statements on the subject, so it would be incorrect to simply shelve the project. It is worthy of note that Russia already has doubts about the need in state-of-the-art Armata tanks and Su-57 fifth-generation fighter aircraft. It appears that the helicopter carrier project will lose the competition.

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