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PostPosted: 18 May 2015, 03:46 
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well, ive put two bottels of veuve in the fridge, one for the sanctions clearing up next month and one for the delivery. i still want san to have this capability so i wish this is right time right price


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PostPosted: 19 May 2015, 00:43 
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These draft documents "imply returning Russia about €785 million, which it will be able to receive only after the Russian government issues written permission for the sale of the ships to any third party without any reservations," Kommersant reported .

Come on SAN. im now sure that IP and such will be allowed to transfer. i know there is a market for egypt but right time right price?

Some more tea leaves: The arms deal contract signed by the two countries has a special clause that prohibits the re-export of the ships — a common occurrence in arms export deals.
Mfezi, your the man!


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PostPosted: 19 May 2015, 09:43 
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Pulling out all the Russian systems and replacing them would cost far too much - it's cheaper to build from scratch.


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PostPosted: 19 May 2015, 09:51 
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Pulling out all the Russian systems and replacing them would cost far too much - it's cheaper to build from scratch.


Otherwise we'd sit with the same problem we had with Outies?[

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PostPosted: 19 May 2015, 23:03 
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Roger the Dodger wrote:
Pulling out all the Russian systems and replacing them would cost far too much - it's cheaper to build from scratch.



But that begs the question of the joint ventures? what systems exactly? i see SANDF favouring eaast these days so i dont know exactly what it is. some education please


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PostPosted: 19 May 2015, 23:28 
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I will explain my thinking, again purley economics, but i dont think china, if the ships are allowed by russia to be resold, it would leave the obvious, china, india....that lead me to look at egypt and why im hopeful for SA.

if rumours are true that china will soon have a fleet of 4 aircraft carriers, two mistrls dont fit the bill. they would likley have 10ish, my thinking. not to mention the way i look at their carrier ambitions, it is supplemented by Yuzhao-class. so i picked egypt but am hopful that stanby force gets a steal of a deal

Exciting times: These proposals "imply that about €785 million will be returned to Russia, which the country will only be able to obtain after its government issues a written permission to sell the vessels to any third party without any reservations," the newspaper said.

Russia looks like they will buld there own regardless of the outcome next month, .... sandf could uses 2, meaning one maintanance one on call? 3 would be better


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PostPosted: 21 May 2015, 22:09 
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im still hoping for the delivery and construction of further mistrals in russia (for DCNS sake).

again the readining of what was leaked was inaccurate an aparently:

Earlier, Gartier said that France could only refund 785 million euros. The amount is much less than the actual sum that the French side must pay back. According to experts, the refund of 785 million euros offered by France does not even cover Russia's down-payment amount.

At this point i say again we will have to wait till an agreed money return amount. from what ive read, which is likely to change, russia doesnt want the mistrals anymore


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PostPosted: 30 May 2015, 01:51 
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Mfezi, and co, can you enlighten a bit on the changes of design in your opinion?
“We have these types of ships planned…but we will build them a bit differently. We’re not going to blatantly copy the [French] Mistral [design] right out,” Oleg Bochkaryov told journalists.


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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2015, 15:59 
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I remember reading something posted here on the forum from moscow times, i have found another article which relates to something ive been saying that certain countries are starting to focus very much on in house cababilities whils having joint ventures between themselves. How i wish i knew what these joint ventures are, sadly .....

here is an article that relates to that moscow times article posted and im assuming will go hand in hand with the new mistral like ships russia has planned if not delivered?

Russia launched an import substitution program to replace foreign components used in the defense industry. The military equipment and arms import substitution plan was finalized December 2014 and will eliminate Russia's dependency on foreign-made defense products.

the whole article is a decent read though:
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150608/ ... z3cTjzrGwm


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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2015, 19:53 
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I think we are getting our first glimpse into what russia is planning as a replacement for the mistrals
The Russian Navy will receive by 2020 the first new-generation landing ship that will be many times heavier than the Ivan Gren class vessels and will be able to carry several helicopters, Tryapichnikov told reporters earlier on Thursday.
http://tass.ru/en/russia/800386


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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2015, 00:46 
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A good moove:
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150615/1023389086.html


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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2015, 08:51 
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Quote:
Settlement Reached Over Assault Ships

Russia and France have reached a tentative agreement on compensation payable to Moscow as a result of Paris' decision to cancel the delivery of two Mistral helicopter carriers. The cancellation of the Mistral deal reportedly will cost France about $1.3 billion. The agreement still must be signed by both Russian President Vladimir Putin and French President Francois Hollande, according to media reports. France canceled the delivery of the two Mistral ships in November 2014. Hollande cited Russia's alleged involvement in the continuing crisis in Ukraine, saying the deal could not go through as there had been little progress concerning a ceasefire.

Russia annexed Crimea in February 2014, and it purportedly hase provided military support to pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine since them. French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian met with U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter Monday to discuss continuing Franco-American cooperation in conflicts around the world. Meanwhile, Russia's official Sputnik news agency reported that France's cancellation of the Mistral deal in 2014 was likely done at the urging of the U.S. The Mistral deal was struck by Hollande's predecessor, Nicolas Sarkozy, in 2011.

Originally, one ship had been scheduled for delivery in 2014 and the other had been set for delivery in 2016. If the Mistrals had been delivered, the deal would have been the first major arms sale by a Western country to Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991, according to the Moscow Times. Since the cancellation of the deal about eight months ago, Moscow and Paris have been negotiating how much France would owe Russia in compensation. Putin had suggested that this amount would have to pay not only for the costs of the ships but also for the additional costs incurred, such as the training of sailors.

The tentative agreement in the area of $1.3 billion would represent a compromise between the parties. France may be able to sell the ships to the U.S. or another NATO ally, although no buyer yet has been identified. Maintenance of the ships could be costing French taxpayers millions of euros a month, leading some to suggest that the cheapest option would be to sink them.

Source: International Business Times

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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2015, 13:23 
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By French standards, the next presidential elections are too far to call, even though both protagonists in this saga, and putative opponents in afore-said elections, are currently in firm charge of their parties. The time available to both means Hollande might just get away with cancelling the deal; with Sarkozy unable to resuscitate his original deal, or more important, unwilling to expend political capital on an issue which, by 2017, the public would have put to rest.

Though of course, the latest polls indicate both gentlemen are unpopular with French voters, despite their current holds on their respective parties.
Personally, I think the deal would've been good for France and Russia, for various reasons. Most role-players from the Quai d'Orsay to the 8th arrondissement thought so, until unbearable pressure was applied to the Élysée Palace.


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PostPosted: 21 Jul 2015, 00:46 
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I agree with everything you say jean.


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PostPosted: 25 Jul 2015, 19:36 
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I think its now conclusive though that russia is building their own:
Russia has started forming a group of specialists to go to France to dismantle communications equipment from the Mistral helicopter carriers, a source in the Russian defense and industrial sector said on Saturday.
http://tass.ru/en/economy/810722
my questions before hand still stand and i wonder how different the ships will be.

IMHO, this is not the best news for dcns :cry: ah well, politics :smt023


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