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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013, 08:24 
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Thieves have stolen antenna cables at Silvermine.
See http://www.witness.co.za/index.php?show ... d%5D=97325


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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013, 08:29 
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A dirct quote from me.

I think that the SANDF should get the maindat and funds to look after there basses and stop reyling department of public works (corrupt filled). There has been a request to fix the fence and clear the grass there for a few years now. Public works are just has normal. Slow.


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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013, 12:37 
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It's unacceptable that it has reached the point where the DPW's incompetence is affecting national security. The Silvermine complex is vital. In a just world this would be taken from the DPW's portfolio and it and the budget they've received for it would be given to the SANDF to perform its own maintenance through the Works Regiment. Sadly this isn't likely to happen any time soon.

With that said, surely there's also some fault on the SAN's side for not compensating for the DPW's slow fixes by increasing patrols and whatnot?


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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013, 13:02 
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Roger the Dodger wrote:
Thieves have stolen antenna cables at Silvermine.
See http://www.witness.co.za/index.php?show ... d%5D=97325


Why can't the DA find someone who knows something about military matters instead of one who relies on scuttlebut?


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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013, 13:14 
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Eugene wrote:
Why can't the DA find someone who knows something about military matters instead of one who relies on scuttlebut?

Good question. The DA loves Maynier because he makes enough noise that they think he's effective, but in reality he only contributes to the problem by being unable to effectively hold the DoD, Minister and the rest of the government to account for the real issues affecting the SANDF.

When the shadow Minister of Defence and Military Veterans spends more time and effort on the 14 year-old Arms Deal than on real problems affecting the SANDF right now it's clear that his priority is political opportunism only, not the effectiveness of the defence force. Not that I mind political opportunism in concept, it's what politicians naturally do, just that the better ones manage to actually achieve things while trying to score political points at the same time. It's about proving competence to govern.

Were the DA serious about the portfolio they'd be looking for somebody with a similar level of understanding and experience to Römer-Heitman or the late Leon Engelbrecht for the position, someone who could gain the trust of military personnel while not blindly accepting everything the SANDF says either. You can't tell me that Maynier is the best they can do.


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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013, 15:51 
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Darren wrote:
It's unacceptable that it has reached the point where the DPW's incompetence is affecting national security. The Silvermine complex is vital. In a just world this would be taken from the DPW's portfolio and it and the budget they've received for it would be given to the SANDF to perform its own maintenance through the Works Regiment. Sadly this isn't likely to happen any time soon.

With that said, surely there's also some fault on the SAN's side for not compensating for the DPW's slow fixes by increasing patrols and whatnot?



They should all operat at SANAD level. R5 battel jacks, live ammo, dogs and both static and roaming patrols.


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013, 00:32 
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Although I often don't agree with what Dave Maynier says I don't think many know that he qualified both as a submariner and a diver in the SAN. So before we go after the man's credentials ...................


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013, 00:34 
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Romeo Yankee wrote:
Although I often don't agree with what Dave Maynier says I don't think many know that he qualified both as a submariner and a diver in the SAN. So before we go after the man's credentials ...................


I have dealt with many servicemen who show remarkable ignorance outside of their narrow little fields.


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013, 07:18 
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The problem is not with Dave Maynier, reading some of the comments here one could swear he is the culprit. If the SAN has a problem with securing and safeguarding their property and premises, it is the SAN that should bear responsibility. The buck stops with them!

- What are they doing about it? Blaming everyone else?

The post by Romeo Yankee is revealing in its content. If indeed Mr Maynier served in the Military, it should be respected. Who else in government, who else in the ranks of the cadres and comrades - and opposition for that matter - has tangible experience regarding the posts they fill?

The problem is one of criminal theft of and on military property, the problem is not with Mr Maynier who is simply informing the public of the happenings within the SANDF.


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013, 07:31 
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Romeo Yankee wrote:
Although I often don't agree with what Dave Maynier says I don't think many know that he qualified both as a submariner and a diver in the SAN. So before we go after the man's credentials ...................


For some one who is suposed to be a submarner he knows so littel about them. He would know that they where runing the 3 ship rull and that a bump so minor that a sub can still sail 1000KM is not a knok out blow. So either he is stupid or knows the truth but cares more about pollical points.


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013, 07:50 
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Tally-ho wrote:
The problem is not with Dave Maynier, reading some of the comments here one could swear he is the culprit. If the SAN has a problem with securing and safeguarding their property and premises, it is the SAN that should bear responsibility. The buck stops with them!

- What are they doing about it? Blaming everyone else?

The post by Romeo Yankee is revealing in its content. If indeed Mr Maynier served in the Military, it should be respected. Who else in government, who else in the ranks of the cadres and comrades - and opposition for that matter - has tangible experience regarding the posts they fill?

The problem is one of criminal theft of and on military property, the problem is not with Mr Maynier who is simply informing the public of the happenings within the SANDF.



DPW is actual respobsibl for the construction repair of the fence and repair to the facilty. And have been aked to do it. Bit has usal drag there feet.

There are patrols but with out man power it not 100% coveriag or 24/7

Yet he shows a lack of knowledg in his own firld high than any one ells. Meaning he is either stupid or dose not care about truth. He has never mentioned any of the many postives and only focusses on negtive.

Yes and with out a proper secuirt fence hard to stop. DPW should either do there job or give the mandate back to SANDF to llok after there base.


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013, 08:19 
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Gentlemen, play the ball, not the man. [-X


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013, 08:27 
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sob wrote:
There are patrols but with out man power it not 100% coveriag or 24/7

He has never mentioned any of the many postives and only focusses on negtive.

The manpower you have is what you have, you are not getting any more, the job must be done with what you have. You cannot keep on blaming others.

It is not the job of Mr Maynier - or any opposition party member - to dole out praise for the government. Opposition parties are there to question and query.


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013, 09:01 
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As I'm partially responsible for this thread going so far off-topic, let me clarify:

My frustration with Maynier is not because he criticizes the SANDF, rather it's that he plays to the crowd and condemns the popular stuff rather than holding the SANDF to account for the things it really does screw up.

The SANDF today does a remarkable job despite challenges, but nobody can deny that it could be much, much better. In many units discipline and leadership are non-existent, political appointees pollute many positions and procurement is an unholy mess.

So the SANDF faces both serious external pressure, such as inflation and the inadequate budget, but also serious internal pressure largely of its own making. It would be counter-productive to complain only about the external pressures without trying to fix the internal problems as well.

Maynier has an incredibly important position as the Opposition's Shadow Minister of Defence and Military Veterans because not only does he have the ear of the general public but he's the only powerful opposition politician in a position to conduct real oversight over the SANDF.

Yet if you look at the releases he has issued over the years there's almost nothing about real ongoing internal problems, no discussion or seeming interest in Defence policy, no questioning of capacity vs requirement. Instead, with the exception of his justifiable targeting of the Minister on VIP flights they're mostly cheap shots that get the public sending outraged letters but do nothing to change the situation. For instance the valid criticisms that Römer-Heitman makes should be followed up to their conclusion by Maynier.

I don't want to suggest that Maynier himself is a bad guy, because he's incredibly sharp and could be very effective in another role such as highlighting ANC corruption. He's just not well-suited to his present position and should be replaced by somebody with more domain knowledge if the DA is both serious about proving its capacity to govern and exercising proper oversight of the Defence Force.

None of this excuses the ANC for its woeful mismanagement, of course. I'd love to see a new Shadow Minister expose just how badly the ANC has been running the SANDF by underfunding it, interfering in appointments and training and demanding deployments regardless of capacity, amongst other things.


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013, 09:34 
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Darren wrote:
As I'm partially responsible for this thread going so far off-topic, let me clarify:

My frustration with Maynier is not because he criticizes the SANDF, rather it's that he plays to the crowd and condemns the popular stuff rather than holding the SANDF to account for the things it really does screw up.

The SANDF today does a remarkable job despite challenges, but nobody can deny that it could be much, much better. In many units discipline and leadership are non-existent, political appointees pollute many positions and procurement is an unholy mess.

So the SANDF faces both serious external pressure, such as inflation and the inadequate budget, but also serious internal pressure largely of its own making. It would be counter-productive to complain only about the external pressures without trying to fix the internal problems as well.

Maynier has an incredibly important position as the Opposition's Shadow Minister of Defence and Military Veterans because not only does he have the ear of the general public but he's the only powerful opposition politician in a position to conduct real oversight over the SANDF.

Yet if you look at the releases he has issued over the years there's almost nothing about real ongoing internal problems, no discussion or seeming interest in Defence policy, no questioning of capacity vs requirement. Instead, with the exception of his justifiable targeting of the Minister on VIP flights they're mostly cheap shots that get the public sending outraged letters but do nothing to change the situation. For instance the valid criticisms that Römer-Heitman makes should be followed up to their conclusion by Maynier.

I don't want to suggest that Maynier himself is a bad guy, because he's incredibly sharp and could be very effective in another role such as highlighting ANC corruption. He's just not well-suited to his present position and should be replaced by somebody with more domain knowledge if the DA is both serious about proving its capacity to govern and exercising proper oversight of the Defence Force.

None of this excuses the ANC for its woeful mismanagement, of course. I'd love to see a new Shadow Minister expose just how badly the ANC has been running the SANDF by underfunding it, interfering in appointments and training and demanding deployments regardless of capacity, amongst other things.



Well siad. SANDF have a host of real problems. Most can sorted out with out any money at all. Exampil the Tender issues. This is draining the deffense budget and waist time. The SANDF should be exempt from the tender program.

Or base maintaince. Let the SANDF handle it with out the DPW. Getting rid of the middel man has such.

Procurment. All though saucepan has finally got money and BIRO is going to select there ships this year there are many urgent problems that have come about due to the messed up procurments.

Cass in point a new transport aircraft. Fine we canceled the A400M now let just buy somthing.

Instead of going on about sytems in storge that we can afford not have (gripens, tanks, rooikats extra) let's focuse on what we have lost but actualy need (C160, Seeker400, extra)

We should increase the speed at witch we deploy troops to the border and increase the numbers that are sent to the kruger park. We basical fighting a COIN war there. Just instead of planting mines they stealling rhino horns. SANDF should respond has if it is a war. I doubt even the DA would complian if we spent a billion rand to protect the park.


Pollitcal appoinments are a waist of money. To many genrails actually do nothing but get paued money for what there second in command dose.


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