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City Class ex-Lindau
http://www.saairforce.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1877		 Page 1 of 10
Author:  airgunner [ 22 Apr 2009, 11:35 ]
Post subject:  City Class ex-Lindau
How many of these are in service and how many are laid up?

SAS Thekwini appears to be in service, but the SAS Kapa was laid up. It also appears to me that the Bofors 40mm gun is no longer shipped.
Author:  Kremlin [ 22 Apr 2009, 13:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: City Class ex-Lindau
I took a walk around to the "mothballed fleet" during this years navy festival, and identified the following laid up ships.
Image
The only one of the initial six Lindau Class, seemingly not laid up, although as you state, minus40mm, was the SAS Thekwini.

My list on the Lindau Class as at March 2009:
SAS Tshwane (ex-Schleswig M1073) M1221 *laid up*
SAS Mangaung (ex-Paderborn M1076) M1222 *laid up*
SAS Kapa (ex-Duren M1079) M1223 *laid up*
SAS Thekwini (ex-Wolfsburg M1082) M1225 - on the synchro-lift.
(ex-Ulm M1083) only used for spares. *laid up*
(ex-Konstanz M1081) only used for spares. *sunk* As an Exocet target during Exercise Red Lion, 1st November 2007 in which SAS Amatola & SAS Isandlwana each fired one missile.

Image

Regards
Brent
Author:  airgunner [ 22 Apr 2009, 14:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: City Class ex-Lindau
Thanks. Are these vessels used as training ships?

Can never understand why they replaced the Ton class from the same era.

SAS Fleur was for sale some time ago.

I noticed there was a River class MCMV missing from Simonstown during the festival as well.

Two exocet's were fired at Konstanz? Could not have been much left of the vessel afterwards.
Author:  H1017412 [ 23 Apr 2009, 03:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: City Class ex-Lindau
airgunner wrote:
Two exocet's were fired at Konstanz? Could not have been much left of the vessel afterwards.


One would hope not! :lol:
Author:  DELTAWING [ 23 Apr 2009, 10:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: City Class ex-Lindau
H1017412 wrote:
airgunner wrote:
Two exocet's were fired at Konstanz? Could not have been much left of the vessel afterwards.


One would hope not! :lol:


There were some pictures doing the rounds at the time, there was almost nothing left of the Konstanz.
Author:  Dean [ 23 Apr 2009, 11:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: City Class ex-Lindau
DELTAWING wrote:

There were some pictures doing the rounds at the time, there was almost nothing left of the Konstanz.


See http://www.navy.mil.za/archive/0711/071 ... rticle.htm

Image
Author:  Flightdeck [ 13 May 2009, 18:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: City Class ex-Lindau
None of the City Class are in commission at this time.

All are awaiting disposal.

A
Author:  airgunner [ 13 May 2009, 19:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: City Class ex-Lindau
Wonder how much they are worth?
Author:  Toddribault [ 14 May 2009, 00:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: City Class ex-Lindau
Probably only a few million rand at this point. They are still capable, but somewhat dated. Any of the African nations would pay for them though given their capabilities. It's just a matter of funding and priority. Most nations are moving towards multipurpose ships in order to save money, although they may have a decent future as patrol vessels.
Author:  H1017412 [ 14 May 2009, 04:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: City Class ex-Lindau
Having been built in the late 50's I'd imagine these vessels are a long way past their use by date.
Author:  Toddribault [ 14 May 2009, 05:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: City Class ex-Lindau
True but they have been upgraded since then and although they may be reaching the end of their hull life, they are minehunters so they are mostly nonmetallic materials, so it should be relatively easy to extend the hull life.
Author:  Benguela [ 15 May 2009, 13:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: City Class ex-Lindau
As a minewarfare vessel, the Lindau class has probably outlived much of its usefulness. Ultimately, the SAN hope to use the Project Biro OPVs for mine-warfare: ship a containerised mine-warfare control centre on the Biro OPV and then find and destroy mines by combination of unmanned vehicle and diver. There are a few problems with that:

1. Biro OPVs won't have the wooden hull or special propulsion of the current Um-class mine hunters, making them less great for minehunting;
2. they also won't have any sweep gear, so they won't be able to sweep for mines at all

The navy will probably say that the new unmanned vehicles they want to get for Biro helps solve both my objections above, but I don't know how. Does anyone know?

But I always thought they should keep one or two Lindau class ships for training.

The SAN have had problems training and retaining bridge watchkeepers (officers certified to "drive" the ship) for as long as I can remember. If we have enough these days it would really surprise me. So I would say put one in service as a training ship, man it with an OC, first lieutenant and two or three more officers, engine room staff, a few senior rates and two cooks and leave space for about twenty midshipmen. Then you send them cruising up and down the coast giving the middies time to clock up their hours and complete their taskbooks. They can also do some fisheries patrols on the way.

And one last thing: forbid the mids to even look at the GPS! Navigation by visual and astro means only! :twisted:
Author:  airgunner [ 15 May 2009, 17:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: City Class ex-Lindau
Good idea.

The City Class are not equipped with any minesweeping gear, I think. Only shipped a 40mm bofors when in service. As a training ship they might as well equip them with 12.7mm MG's instead.

A dedicated training ship makes a lot of sense.
Author:  Roger the Dodger [ 15 May 2009, 19:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: City Class ex-Lindau
IMHO a proper training ship is a 4 masted square rigged schooner. Teach the middies REAL sailing. The high tech video game stuff is vital but its not seamanship.

BTW Does the SAN still have a serious ocean racing yacht?
Author:  Toddribault [ 16 May 2009, 05:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: City Class ex-Lindau
If the Biros are so weak in the MCMV role then why not buy a dedicated MCMV? It seems to me that the SAN will lack a serious MCMV capability in the future (depending on the Biros) if what is said about the City class is true. Any ideas?
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