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PostPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 14:05 
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A court ruled earlier this month that the aircraft had to be delivered to Lanseria "within 15 days". That deadline has passed, so has it arrived at Lanseria or not?


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PostPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 19:33 
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Allegedly moved from Dubai to Cotonouu via Khartoum & Libreville round about 15 March

PZULBA - Out of Africa (Retired)


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2018, 08:25 
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Not at Lanseria anymore,Got a few pictures of the plane,strange note that in 2015 Cyril Ramaphosa was flying in it regularly,loaned to him by the Gupta's.My picture was on the sabc news and in this article.

https://www.netwerk24.com/Nuus/Nuwe-Gup ... t-20150826

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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2018, 11:13 
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Airfire wrote:
Not at Lanseria anymore,Got a few pictures of the plane,strange note that in 2015 Cyril Ramaphosa was flying in it regularly,loaned to him by the Gupta's.My picture was on the sabc news and in this article.

https://www.netwerk24.com/Nuus/Nuwe-Gup ... t-20150826


My first post here is wrong, the court order was only a few days ago, I have no idea why I thought it was weeks ago!
According to the court order issued on Monday 19 March the deadline for the plane to be "stored" at Lanseria is Tuesday 3 April, immediately after the Easter weekend.
Unfortunately I can't read the Netwerk24 article, my free access expired quite some time ago.


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2018, 09:51 
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http://www.enca.com/south-africa/gupta- ... better-use

yes look here my pictures was on the news,here is the proof he used ZS-OAK on video

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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2018, 11:47 
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Airfire wrote:
...strange note that in 2015 Cyril Ramaphosa was flying in it regularly,loaned to him by the Gupta's.My picture was on the sabc news and in this article.
https://www.netwerk24.com/Nuus/Nuwe-Gup ... t-20150826


Airfire wrote:
http://www.enca.com/south-africa/gupta-jet-hire-r5-mil-could-have-been-put-better-use

yes look here my pictures was on the news,here is the proof he used ZS-OAK on video


A few nits to pick, Adrian.
The plane wasn't loaned to Ramaphosa. The SANDF used taxpayer money to charter it for the presidency.
Ramaphosa's directive to the Defence Minister - now that he's in charge - is that the SANDF can no longer just ask for charter quotes. They have to now determine the owners and pass if there's any attached controversy.
Execujet and other charter companies will no longer be able to offer jets to the SANDF if they're owned by the controversial Modis, Guptas etc of this world. A welcome improvement in my book.

Personally, the optimal way to insulate the presidency is to:
1) Move the VIP transport function to the Presidency and DIRCO; or
2) Keep it in the SANDF in terms of personnel and assets, with the 2 entities above footing the budget; and
3) If a charter can't be avoided, it's exclusively with SAA.


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2018, 15:31 
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Jean Racine wrote:
Airfire wrote:
...strange note that in 2015 Cyril Ramaphosa was flying in it regularly,loaned to him by the Gupta's.My picture was on the sabc news and in this article.
https://www.netwerk24.com/Nuus/Nuwe-Gup ... t-20150826


Airfire wrote:
http://www.enca.com/south-africa/gupta-jet-hire-r5-mil-could-have-been-put-better-use

yes look here my pictures was on the news,here is the proof he used ZS-OAK on video


A few nits to pick, Adrian.
The plane wasn't loaned to Ramaphosa. The SANDF used taxpayer money to charter it for the presidency.
Ramaphosa's directive to the Defence Minister - now that he's in charge - is that the SANDF can no longer just ask for charter quotes. They have to now determine the owners and pass if there's any attached controversy.
Execujet and other charter companies will no longer be able to offer jets to the SANDF if they're owned by the controversial Modis, Guptas etc of this world. A welcome improvement in my book.

Personally, the optimal way to insulate the presidency is to:
1) Move the VIP transport function to the Presidency and DIRCO; or
2) Keep it in the SANDF in terms of personnel and assets, with the 2 entities above footing the budget; and
3) If a charter can't be avoided, it's exclusively with SAA.


As it was chartered by the presidency,it was used and probably hired at a higher rate to make the Gupta's richer in any case,Zuma was pushing this in all regards with numerous government movements to make sure he got a kick back as well from the Gupta's,Ramaphosa is no angel and was well aware of this weather he loaned the plane or not,the SANDF used our money tax monies .Ramaphosa I am sure had dealings with the Gupta's as well being the wealthy business man that he is,but this we will never know.Execujet also is the maintenance organization for most SAAF VIP aircraft as well so they will still offer aircraft to SANDF..I am sure when needed.

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That's why it's called the present.
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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2018, 09:53 
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Airfire wrote:
As it was chartered by the presidency,it was used and probably hired at a higher rate to make the Gupta's richer in any case,Zuma was pushing this in all regards with numerous government movements to make sure he got a kick back as well from the Gupta's,Ramaphosa is no angel and was well aware of this weather he loaned the plane or not,the SANDF used our money tax monies .Ramaphosa I am sure had dealings with the Gupta's as well being the wealthy business man that he is,but this we will never know.Execujet also is the maintenance organization for most SAAF VIP aircraft as well so they will still offer aircraft to SANDF..I am sure when needed.


Nope, it was chartered as part of the transversal Treasury contract, RT61, which establishes fixed rates for aircraft hires. I wrote a bit about it a while ago: https://www.africandefence.net/vvip-charters-and-the-south-african-air-force/

As part of this process it was National Treasury way back in 2014 (before it was so thoroughly compromised by Gigaba) that issued the tender and decided on Execujet and Fortune Air as the two winners, offering each a share of the relevant travel requests. Both are compensated for a class of aircraft, not specific aircraft, so it's not possible to pay one aircraft owner more than another for the same aircraft and flight type. The SAAF has no control, when using RT61, over which companies to charter from.

Previously, the SAAF (like other government departments) used RT61 at arm's length, just sending mission requests to Execujet & Fortune Air, depending on which had availability and which proportion of the tender they'd been given, accepting whatever aircraft was provided, and paying the standard RT61 rates. That's the point of transversal contracts like this, as they let departments avoid nearly all the contract administration overhead for standard services.

The SAAF is still permitted to issue its own contracts, provided they comply with the PFMA, and since RT61-2014 expired earlier this year they've had to do that for all chartered flights, but I can confirm from my own sources that both ZS-OAK and Moti's jet were chartered under RT61 without the SAAF giving any thought to who owned the aircraft.

Treasury's working on a new RT61 contract, which will presumably then once again be the main way that the SAAF charters VIP jets.

Back on topic with regard to ZS-OAK, the court ruling is that Westdawn must hand the aircraft over to the CAA for safe-keeping at Lanseria within 15 days of the judgement, failing which the CAA must cancel the aircraft's registration with immediate effect. This doesn't mean the Guptas are certain to lose the aircraft, as the ruling states that the aircraft must merely be kept in neutral hands or grounded until the outcome of a court case between EDC and the Guptas in the UK has been finalised.


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2018, 11:59 
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Gupta plane returned to Lanseria
https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News ... s-20180414?


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PostPosted: 15 Apr 2018, 15:34 
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Why do journalists reporting on this still repeat the claim about the transponder being turned off? It never was, as that would be illegal, instead the Guptas just submitted requests to the major public flight tracking sites to block the aircraft's details from display. That's common for most business jets and most military aircraft.

The only reason we could see it on ADSBExchange is because they don't honour blocking requests. That's it.


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PostPosted: 16 Apr 2018, 08:18 
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I see the plane was returned to Lanseria on Friday night 13th April

still using my picture here..no credits to me.on both of these reports
https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News ... s-20180414

https://www.businessinsider.co.za/zs-oa ... tay-2018-4

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That's why it's called the present.
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https://www.facebook.com/Airfirephotography/


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