The SAAF Forum

These are Images from IDEAS 2008, showing some weapons options for the JF-17. The 8 X GBU-12 loadout is impressive and the 4 x MRAAMs + 2 x SRAAMs I like too.

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In God I trust, everyone else bring your data!

Nice pictures, pngwerume.

One of the prototypes with an array of the various weapon loads that the Gripen was projected to carry.

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Without weapons it's just another airliner

I DO take the Gripen as the yard stick (gold standard) of modern lightweight MRCAs!

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In God I trust, everyone else bring your data!

Here is a load-out chart for the Gripen. I believe this is current though because I have seen photos of SAAF Gripens with iron bombs on the inlet pylons.

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In God I trust, everyone else bring your data!

Hello Luftwaffe here from Canada.
Deltawing...To update your knowledge JF-17 basic fighter cost 18M$-20M$ while Pakistan's JF-17 with its state of the art avionics would cost 28M$..see the difference.
First batch of 50 JF-17s will incorporate Chinese avionics w/ french-chinese weapons or French avionics and french-chinese weapons(later upgraded) Later batches will have all state of the art Chinese avionics that are in development (AESA radar time frame 2012-2013 etc)
While Gripen is fully upgraded and updated next upgrade is till 2016 so it is safe to say JF-17blk2 upgrades will be on par with gripen. JF-17 is in its infancy give it 4/5 more years and you will come to see the end product. Consider F-16s history same is going to be with JF-17s so to say JF-17 can't compete is utter rubbish statement.
JF-17 design is influenced by F-16 no other aircraft...By the way Zimbabwe is not going to get JF-17s before 2011-2012 so we can expect better avionics and weapons for Zimbabwe Air Force. I don't see they are looking for any fight with SAAF at all its just to upgrade their air force to standard. You can expect Zimbabwe to purchase the version of JF-17 that Pakistan might be getting that would be interesting AESA enabled JF-17?time will tell. Also Chinese are testing their AWACS who knows Zimbabwe gets an AWACS along with those JF-17s. Expect the unexpected.
Also is said to upgrade its F-7s to standard the most likely candidate is the FIAR Grifo radars from Pakistan that Pakistan is manufacturing under full license from Italy for its F-7s. Grifo is a pulse Doppler multi mode, multi roll radar.
Interestingly Pakistan has choice to select any FIAR Grifo radars..Italians have their fair share in whatever Grifo radar Pakistan might under license produce and sell. Most likely candidate is radar FIAR Grifo S7. Can multitrack and engage multiple targets at the most 2 better and is BVR capable. Most likely bvr missile will be chinese SD-10, Grifo radar said to have compatibality with SD-10. So F7MG with S7 radars and SD-10 missiles not bad.
most noticeable near future upgrades of JF-17s includes WS-Series engine with mach 2 thurst equal in performance to blk52 engines on F-16C/D.
I will update more of your knowledge and other mates in here the soonest.







I will update more of your knowledge and other mates in here the soonest.

That the JF-17 will continue to evolve is true ... ... but so will the Gripen! Seems like at IDEAS 2008 they were marketing 2 version of the JF-17/FC-1. Possibly a difference in engine. One with the 3600kg payload and a second (new re-engined) version with a 4,600kg pay load. (See imaged below).

Avionics wise, I understand Parkistan requirements for the JF-17 was 110km range ... ... and they acknowledged the KLJ-7 met these requirements.

The Zimbabwean F-7s were upgraded around 2005/2006. I don't know what they got for radar.

Zimbabwe getting AWCS? I doubt it. I could be wrong. They are focusing on GRADOCC with at least 12 radar sites air warfare command centres. Also upgraded at the same time as the F-7 avionics.




Concerning Grifo radars, looks like the latest for F-7s is the Grifo-MG as used by Namibia and Bangladesh. See below, from SIPRI.

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In God I trust, everyone else bring your data!

pngwe sir...i never said Zimbabwe will be getting AWACS i said they might get it with those JF-17s cuz they aren't going to upgrade their air force often so something might happen in future..as i said you never know...
Pakistan first 50 JF-17 batches will have KLJ radars or might opt for french radars...but the rest and later on on all JF-17s will have Chinese origin AESA radars downgraded ones that Chinese have started to work on for J-10s and possibly for FC-20 alleged to be a better designed J-10 thought i doubt. Requirements changes with time you might have to give upgrades again to satisfy your needs and i am sure Zimbabwe if are getting bvr enabled JF-17 surely are going to upgrade F-7MGs to carry BVR and for that S-7 GRIFO is available and best suited.

Zimbabwe buying anything except the absolute bare minimum basics (food & fuel) anytime soon is a patently ridiculous idea. Not going to happen!

Well roger..They certainly decided to buy JF-17 lol apart from food. Previously many said the same they won't buy this and that here they are with even basic but something called F-7s. Try to accept the truth!

How about an alternate Idea..Cruise missiles from Pakistan and ground all of their air force. Will cost them less maintaining things around..now that they have a very small air force they are going no where again Learn to accept the truth just pray Cruise Missiles don't end up in Zimbabwean's arsenal.

The Gripen Cockpit explained:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt8qVX-UKVA

I find that hard to explain too but it does not mean it is not happening. The FC-1 deal was in 2004 - and likely paid in mining rights for of the Chinese companies. I have looked into it and tried to explain the $250m deal as the K-8s but then learnt that those were bought at $4,2m a each. A bacth of either PL-5 or PL-9 missiles were delivered with the K-8s. I believe these would habe been for the F-7s rather than the K-8s - I could be mistaken. They upgraded landbased and airborne radars in 2005/2006, maybe also explain the new missiles as opposed to the PL-7s the AFZ has been know to operate for years.

I recently came across an online transcript of some discussions in the Zim parliament on the defence budget, from June 2007. They had spent nearly US$90m on "Equipment Transfers", which I understand to mean new equipment for that FY. So yes, they country is in dire need of money for essentials, but Mugabe DID spend $90m on new military equipment in 2007!

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In God I trust, everyone else bring your data!

Yes Mugabe is feeling the heat from some quarters, with neighbouring Botswana growling at him and so on. So he will spend what little money is left in the Reserve Bank on ways to keep himself in power. (in other words, the military)

But even in the rank and file of the army things seem to be coming apart, with soldiers looting and so on..

Anyway, should a new government ever be instated, I'm sure the very first thing they will do is cut the defense budget and the Zim Air Force will have to bear the brunt of the cuts.

I agree on all your three points!

What I don't know is, "how much is a new incoming government required to uphold contracts signed by its predecessor?"

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In God I trust, everyone else bring your data!

Fortunately Zim is quite an issue world wide at the moment.
Hopefully the contractors will let a few contracts slip pass for money going to food and other resources rather.

Hopefully Morgan isn't as big a clown as Bob...